Does humanity play a role in your job? 7

[StefanHamminga]

Hello, I'd like to start with some background. I'm 24 years old, been working as a full time engineer/designer for the past year, it kind of crossed my path... I have no diploma's or anything, I got hired just on my rep. and am doing really well.

Ofcourse this is a good thing actually, my boss even wants to keep me from continuing my study and start an engineering company with him.

Now I'm having second thoughts about that, my life philosophy has always been that I wanted to do something to help humanity and I'm thinking engineering just doesn't doesn't do enough for me on that area.

I'm sure there are more people here thinking the same, so I'm really interested in how you solved that... Did you search for that job that you felt would help humanity or did you take the best job you could get as an engineer and learned to live with your consious? Another option might be trying to be the best in your job as possible and use your resources to help...

Let me know what you guys think, especially what you thought looking back on your life as an engineer...

PS. Sorry for my messy story ;-)

Stefan Hamminga
Mesken BV
2005 Certified SolidWorks Professional
Mechanical designer/AI student

 

[ziggi]

ajack1,
The first war machines were nothing but siege engines, ie catapults, rams etc, they were developed in ancient greece, rome etc and barely contributed to the actual death toll in a battle, their main purpose was to breach walls and intimidate the opposition. War machines did nothing more than this until World War 1 with the advent of the tank, even then a pretty useless piece of equipment performing nothing more than breaching enemy lines and intimidating the enemy, a hybrid of catapult and ram. Also remember that the first engineers were building aqueducts, roads, forts etc as well, ie. infrastructure and defense improvements. If not for them we would still be dumping pots of our own excrement out of windows.

bioengr,
In my opinion social workers are probably the most essential people there are. While they only help a single person at a time the people they help go on to live far more productive lives. Without a social worker my wife would have committed suicide when she was a teenager. Her family has had many problems and I can see a clear difference between the generation above her, which had no assistance from social workers and her generation, which did.

 

[bioengr82]

You take offense where none was intended. I don't doubt that social workers make a difference for those they help. My point is engineers help a much broader segment of society generations and generations over. Social workers may be the most selfless profession around. However, their existance is a modern invention and those they reach is a small specific group (mostly in developed nations?). The good work they do is a bit intangible. So a world without social workers would be a world without social workers (all everything associated with them). However, I disagree ziggi that "...social workers are probably the most essential people there are." I would personally take police, firemen, soldiers, doctors, teachers, and any number of professions that make a much bigger broader impact on every facet of EVERYONE's life. Call me cold or uncaring, but given the choice of the good done from one engineering inovation, say the refrigeration cycle and the good every social worker has ever done, I'll take my meat cold and unspoiled.

 

[StefanHamminga]

Wow! much more responde than I could imagine! Thank you all for your ideas and opinions!

I do believe what had been pointed out here, I think engineering by itself is neutral, just the purpose can be good or bad to certain degrees. This was where I was after.

I am going to persue a good engineering career, while trying to keep an eye on the purpose of my work.
For now however I decided I will finish my current university study (artificial intelligence) before I continue my career. I'm really anxious to see what a relatively new area of research like AI can bring our world the next decade or so!

About doing volunteering work, my current opinion about that is to get educated the best I can, so I can be the most efficient person to help later on in my life. I mean, I see low life criminals and stuff like that every day, I feel by doing what I do now I can't offset more than they can do wrong (by labour alone), but when I can reach higher places in society I can open more doors and steer more people into doing good...


On the subject of my boss having me 'career' captive, that might be true, but the joke of the story is that I came to his company to sell him an IT concept (and accompanying hard/software)... He asked me if I could also draw some of his sketches up in CAD and I ended up as a project leader and designer on about 50 smaller and larger projects over the last year.
We both hadn't imagined it would go this well! So for both It worked really well, so well in fact, I allready got 2 job offers from companies I worked with...

Strange how these things can go...

Stefan Hamminga
Mesken BV
2005 Certified SolidWorks Professional
Mechanical designer/AI student

 

[TheTick]

As far as your boss goes...

When I was struggling (financially) through my last year of college, my boss said he would fire me if I quit school.

 

[Theophilus]

Stefan,

I thought this might be interesting in light of getting the education:

Not in college for a diploma. Not in college for grades. Not in college for an education. In college to learn to think. In college to understand what you believe and why you believe it. If you achieve that, you will not need the college for an education. You will be able to educate yourself for the rest of your life! Role of Common Sense in Education.

--Written in back cover of Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, friend's copy


Jeff Mowry

http://www.industrialdesignhaus.com

Reality is no respecter of good intentions.

 

[Heckler]

Jeff,

That's a great book.....should be required reading for all undergrad engineers

 

[Haf]

Stefan,

If you're studying AI, don't see any of the "Terminator" movies; any of the three may prompt you to drop out! Don't see Spielburg's AI, either, for different reasons. It's just a terrible movie.

In all seriousness, though, it sounds like you're on the right track. If you take control of your education (get as much as you can) and your career, you can steer things in almost any direction you choose. Engineers touch nearly every aspect of humanity in some direct or indirect way.

Also, keep in mind that getting multiple job offers from various companies may be a guarantee of job security, but it is not a guarantee of career mobility. If you want mobility, a degree is probably the closest thing to a guarantee that's out there.

 

[ziggi]

bioengr, I took no offense to your remarks. And I agree that engineers have done alot of good. However we are comparing apples and oranges when it comes to engineers and social workers.
Engineers deal primarily with the public good when related to solving physical problems, ie. engineers allow us to live in clean homes due to public sanitation etc etc.
Social workers on the other hand solve psychological and emotional problems, and while it is on a one to one basis, when a person is psychologically and/or emotionally disturbed that tends to affect their offspring and immediate family, which in turn affects their children's children and family etc etc.

I personally think that without social workers and those who care (whether it be friends, priests, shrinks etc) and try to stem these problems the world would be a pretty sick place, I mean you can have the best technology that money can buy, but if your populous is a bunch of loons then its all worthless.
Two examples of this are ancient Rome, prior to its demise, at the height of its technology. People were as mad as hatters (the lead poisioning could have helped). Another example from the present are the slums of developed countries, they have all the tech they could want but people still grow up seeing loved ones get murdered among other things, that image would scar a child up pretty badly and without some other way to heal these mental scars, the child would probably do what it knows best, ie violence, b/c thats what it sees.

 

[bioengr82]

ziggi-

I agree with most everything you stated. However, my broader outlook is a bit more "glass half empty". Again no offense, but the world is already a pretty sick place. It always has been, and I believe it always will be until we finally kill ourselves off completely. People have always commited murder, had poor, and not been happy. True, it is selfless and inspiring work to try and help those aflicked, but to me it is not a problem with a solution (thats not to say we should ignore it). It is what it is. Social workers havn't actually solved anything, where as we engineers have that sanitation problem in the bag. So who has contributed more to humanity? Its obviously open to debate, but if you made a check list of problems that now have solutions with the number of people they have helped; engineering's would be a mile long. I don't know that social work has any.

As for your example of slums in developed nations, again the same 'social' problems exist in third world nations. As far as I'm concerned they will always exist. Its biblical. The difference is that in a developed nations slum, you at least don't have to worry about dysentery on top of everything else.

 

[ajack1]

Whilst that may be true it is hard to think how social workers have such an effect as Nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, inner city smog, the destruction of rain forests, air crashes, malfunctioning ships and rail incidents, malfunctioning nuclear power stations to name but a few things.

Whilst it could be argued we have done more to improve lives we have almost certainly done more than just about anyone else to mess them up and the planet we live on.

 

[bioengr82]

With the exception of accidents (human error), all listed represent legitmate engineering technology with benifical uses mismanaged & applied improperly.

 

[SlideRuleEra]

Stefan - I have read every one of the above responses to your question; you have received some outstanding advice. One avenue that has not been addressed are the "numbers". Since so much of engineering is based on numbers, I will present one example:

A local Church with an outstanding reputation for doing "good works" was beginning construction of a multi-million dollar "Family Center". I was asked by Church officials to partcipate, part time, in the Construction Management. To make a long story short, after an 18 month construction cycle, the Building was dedicated this summer:

My Total Fee: About $10,000
Documented Savings & Avoided Costs based on my participation: $250,000

Results:
Was the project finacially rewarding to me? Yes.
Was the project personally rewarding to me? Yes.
Did the Church/Community benefit? Yes.
Was the Contractor satisfied? Yes
Was the Architect/Engineer satified? Yes

The point of this example is that not everything is a mutually exclusive choice (Good Works or High Pay). Win-Win situations happen all the time, even in engingeering fields.

http://www.SlideRuleEra.net

 

[IRstuff]

Which sanitation problem do we have in the bag? Or landfill? No one has yet even engineered a leak-proof sanitary napkin.

We're practically drowning in trash. There are cities that are dumping their trash into the deep ocean because there's no room for it all.

We make and buy stuff that's 99% packaging, volumetrically, that has to be disposed of.

TTFN

 

[bioengr82]

IRstuff-

Given the nature of human being's and our inexplicable ability unlock some of the greatest mysteries of the cosmos while simultaneously systematically destroying ourselves and the living things around us, can it be assumed that any persuit of knowledge or application there of is only contributing to and accelerating the degredation of our planet? Shouldn't we just assume that any new technology will more than likely be abused and in the end hurt more than it helps? If so, I propose we raze all research facilities right now. Then we burn all the science and engineering textbooks we can find. We stop this sillyness that is advancement. No good can come from it. When all the evidence of engineering, science, and math has been erased we retreat into the mountains and refuse to speak. This should save the planet.

Of course it might make more sense to try and properly apply that which we know in responsible and sustainable mannor. Knowledge is not evil. Its existance is not evil. Knowlege is neutral, good nor bad. The application by PEOPLE is where things foul.

And again with the trash. The problem is not that we don't know how to fix the problem. We choose not to because it is more convenient (for now).

I can not comment about the leak proofness of sanitary napkins. I can, however, say they do exist and fulfill their intended function to an adequate degree.

"But here's an extremely salient point: we have been chosen, by fate or Providence or whatever you wish to call it. As far as we can tell, we are the best there is. We may be all there is. It's an unnerving thought that we may be the living universe's supreme achievement and its worst nightmare simultaneously."
- Bill Bryson, "A Short History of Nearly Everything"

 

[IRstuff]

There is a law of unintended consequences.

It's our very hubris that fails to allow us to see that we are not as wise or smart as some of us think we are.

TTFN

 

[EddyC]

I get to contribute to humanity by making sure that the contractors who build what I design don't take any shortcuts and thereby endanger people all in the pursuit of their personal greed.

 

[epoisses]

@bioengr
"...while simultaneously systematically destroying ourselves and the living things around us...."

I'm afraid I have to disagree! Who grows trees, flowers, who maintains rivers and seashores, who protects animals against each other, who installs irrigation systems in dry areas and dams/dikes around areas threatened to be overflown?

Sure our exhaust gases do harm, just like beavers, termites, caterpillars and other animals do "harm" to mother nature - at least one may call it harm if harm can be defined. We chop trees - sure, what other material are we supposed to use, plastics? We plant trees just as well.

I wonder what this "self destruction" thought is based on exactly. If it were our inherent tendancy to destroy ourselves, we would have done so long ago.

 

[StefanHamminga]

We are all 'nature', it's just the players changing, not the game...
Humanity would be keeping certain players in the game, wouldn't it?

Really though, I had not expected that so many people considered this subject (the topic subject that is). My view on certain aspects of engineering has certainly been influenced by your views!
The situation SlideRuleEra described is exactly where I'm after. I hope the other readers of this thread found it as interesting as me!


Stefan Hamminga
Mesken BV
2005 Certified SolidWorks Professional
Mechanical designer/AI student

 

[bioengr82]

epoisses-

Perhaps you missed how much of my tongue was in my cheek.

 

[IRstuff]

I think that you'll need to revisit the number of trees cut vs. the number of trees planted.

The inclusive "WE" have continued to remove far more trees worldwide than the small handfull that Georgia Pacific likes to tout about planting.

TTFN