Dressing for an Interview 1

[purplemonkey]

Hey eng-tips,

So last I posted, I was very frustrated with my current employment situation and was thinking of leaving the company. Since then, I have been asked to attend an interview in the manufacturing engineering department of our company.

I work in the engineering department and our dress code is not regulated what so ever. Furthermore, as far as my supervisors are concerned, they are unaware of me seeking a placement within the manufacturing department. I usually wear jeans and a sweater or collard shirt to work.

Since I have an interview tomorrow morning in the manufacturing department I would like to make the best impression possible. The position itself is highly above my pay grade and technical background however I would still like to put my best foot forward (regardless of how little chance I have for landing the position).
How should I dress for this without raising too much suspicion within my own department?

I should also note that the manufacturing department is adjacent to the engineering department so the "go to the bathroom and change" trick wouldn't necessarily work for me here.

 

[jmw]

Tut tut.

An interview is where the employer and the applicant look each other over and each one tries to impress the other.

If they like each other they talk turkey.

On a planet far far away in another galaxy, if the company makes an offer, the applicant might say "Gosh!" and fall off his chair so amazed is he by the 1000% salary increase for next to no extra work.

But on this planet, management's one goal (their responsibility to the shareholders) is to screw the employee till the pips squeak.
The employee's responsibility is to keep from getting screwed worse than normal.

There is no:

.....an interview was held immediately, and consequently I got the position of a "Process Engineer

There is:
[ul][li] initial chit chat.[/li]
[li] a period of management BS about what a wonderful opportunity it is and how they were looking for Albert Einstein and offering wages comparable to Mickey Dees, which they think is fair.[/li]
[li]The applicant gets his turn at BS and says how dedicated he is, how he wants to learn. How interesting the job sounds. etc etc .[/li]
[li] Someone wakes up HR and they try out all those trick interview questions you saw on another thread.[/li]
[li] Management either decide they don't want you in which case the interview will end abruptly, leaving you wondering what happened.
Or they think they have a bite and will launch into the "times are hard" speech they trot out any time they need to talk salary or bonus or pay rises/falls.[/li]
[li]applicant dives in to ask about terms and conditions, holidays, sick days, company car, etc [/li]
[li]They make a bad offer anyway.[/li]
[li]The employer makes an offer. [/li]
[li]The applicant sucks his teeth and shakes his head a bit and looks at his shoes.
He says "Well, thanks for the interview anyway."
And maybe the Employer will up the offer and maybe he won't..[/li]
[li] Applicant accepts offer or Applicant rejects offer. Or more correctly, asks to see the offer in writing but tentatively agrees.[/li][/ul]

After having turned around what looked like a brush off into an interview I would hope you actually went through the negotiation stage.

The way you now write you make it sound like they didn't ask, they just informed you. They have to make an offer and you have to accept or reject. Before they make the offer you explore and negotiate.

Of course they'll say you lack the qualifications. Their job at the interview is to make you seem like a charity case and your job is to make them think you are Albert Einstein and make them want to pay you big bucks.
You meet somewhere in the middle. Maybe.
You accept or reject.
There are no do-overs.

Did ask for a road map of how they would monitor progress? What the milestones are and KPIs?
Did you get an indication of what salary you would get when you proved out?
How long this would take?

If they made an offer and you accepted that's it.
Game over.
No complaints.
No whining.
No second guessing.
Whatever they offered, you accepted.
No one made you.

Suck it up.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[jmw]

PS:

It was explained to me that because I come from a design background and have no previous experience with manufacturing, I will start off at the lower end of the grade. That is fair.

Rule of thumb (and as a sound working principle):
Management are never fair.
They also lie. If they say the sky is blue, open the window and check.

This type of statement is SOP for management/employers/interviewers. If there was ever an interview at which management said "Wow, we were lucky to get you. (before the salary offer)!" listen for the music.

If they didn't think you could do the job they wouldn't make an offer.

Final rule, most important of all:
"If you want something , ask for it."
"If you don't ask, you don't get."
"If you didn't ask, you got what you deserved."

Clue: When they say "That's only fair, don't you agree?"
You say "No, I don't agree." and then you explain what you think is fair.
You don't simply roll over and agree with everything (anything) management say.
Most such statements are actually proposals, not statements of fact.
They want to see how you respond.
How you respond determines what they offer you.
If you say, yes, that's fair. They'll offer you bottom dollar.



JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[patprimmer]

It helps if you actually think about the position before you go to the interview and predict they will ask the std questions, and use the std tactics and prepare your answers. They do this everyday, you only occasionally, so it is relatively easy for them to catch you unprepared.

At least next time do your homework on preparing for the interview and have a reason for why you are worth more for when you say you are worth more, they will ask you why and you should present a convincing argument in a confident convincing manner.

You should have cleared this with your current boss first so you could present your case from a position of strength.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[purplemonkey]

jmw: Your responses always give me a good chuckle. Initially I was offended but I agree with many of your points. As you can tell, I am very inexperienced with the interview/negotiation process.

Let me explain my situation better since I rushed the explanation for expediency sake.

What originally occurred was an external posting for a process engineer. I heard about it through another employee and both him and myself applied.

We were both promised interviews, however mine got "rescheduled" while he had his interview. Originally, I was not going to go after the position because I knew I was way too under qualified for it (it was a management position). After speaking with my father about the situation, I was advised to send an email to my interviewer, (the head of the manufacturing department), as well as HR expressing my interest in the job if they were still interested in me. In this way, I would have written proof that I was open to the idea of advancement in case that every came up in an evaluation in the future.

I went in the next day, wrote the email and sent it. Within the hour, the head of manufacturing called me in for the interview, which I had. During the interview, it was explained that he was looking for a "worker bee" and that I was under qualified for the management position. I was receptive since it would give me some background in manufacturing (primarily I have design...well, lets not kid ourselves, my background is in drafting)

Even still, the position he was interviewing me for was still a grade higher than what I am being paid. I didn't think anything would come of it but I got an offer today.

I didn't sign any papers but the offer was significantly lower than I expected. While a 3.54% increase may seem like an acceptable amount, to give perspective: 3.5% of 0 is not the same as 3.5% of 10. My point is that since my current salary is very low, the offer was almost laughable. Like I said however, I didn't sign any papers.

I didn't say anything as far as the offer that was made verbally to HR or the department head, however I did speak with both expressing how excited I was to work in manufacturing.

After reviewing the responses here and speaking with my father and little lady, I wrote a counter offer email which I think was more than fair.

The email basically consisted of me thanking them for the opportunity, why I felt I was qualified and I made a counter offer of about 7.1% from my current salary. This was to be granted after a 6 month evaluation so they have time to see I am what I say I am, and I don't feel like I am not being compensated.

At this point, if they can't accept that, I am unsure what my actions will be because its very demoralizing working for what you feel is scraps from the table.

 

[purplemonkey]

patprimmer:

the problem with this whole situation was that this position was never official to begin with. It was a position created almost on a whim. It was not posted internally nor externally. The original position posted externally was what I applied to.

What I ended up being offered was for a position not even on the radar.

I would have, and always have asked permission to make sure I am always conducting myself professionally, however this whole scenario is hear-say. Nothing is written down formally. Even my offer had the wrong position title on it and I had to clarify what exactly they were offering me. Apparently I have a starting date of this coming Monday if accepted however that is now been changed to Wednesday...again by word of mouth!

At this point, I am doing my best to record and keep track of everything I am being told, and put it into writing when applicable so I have something to fall back on.

Like I have said time and again, the disorganization here is beyond words.

 

[jmw]

No, apologies, my response was to your post as written

and consequently I got the position of a "Process Engineer"

This certainly implied you had actually taken on the new job.
It came across as a done deal and one you now wanted to whinge about.

But, in the new interpretation, it is an offer and you didn't accept but counter offered. Hence, you are doing way better than most.

And since what you managed to get was an interview for a job that didn't exist, and the job offered to you, you are way ahead of the game. Further ahead since yo haven't accepted it yet.

And, since you didn't accept their offer, your apparent griping is not griping, and is not only excusable, but an essential exercise in trying to place a value both on yourself and the job.

Sure, try to know something about the scales and grades but in the end this doesn't matter. You'll always end up comparing yourself to some a***hole who is promoted way beyond his capabilities and paid far more than he is worth.
In the end, grades and scales are an HR fiction.

A good deal is where both parties think they skinned the other. If you get a deal you are happy with, be happy.
In the end, your salary is what you and management agree it is. Management can always set aside the rules/grades/scales when they want and in individual "special circumstacnes (or pretend to; how many times have I heard the " times are hard but I've gone out of my way to get you a little bit extra out of the pot. But don't tell anyone because some people have had to take less." Be nice if it were true but they tell the same story to everyone, except the brown-noser who really does get a bigger share of the pot).

It doesn't matter if they can't meet your price for this job and if you don't accept their counter offer. It may not even be a genuine offer and the whole deal is constructed so you won't accept. It may be they should have interviewed you for the job that did exist and can't now because its been promised elsewhere. So this could simply be an appeasement exercise. Or a fact finder or both. They want to get your measure. Previously a worker bee, now showing signs of ambition.

But if it is or is not an offer, then this exercise has achieved some notable successes.
1) you have established to them that you have ambitions. That means they cannot simply consider you as someone who will simply accept the pay rises and promotions (or lack of either) as management see fit to give you. If they don't satisfy you, some other company might.

2) you have established that they do value you. They came up with an interview for a non existent job. You should think about this and what it tells you about how they perceive you. They certainly value you more than they pay you already.

So, it may be that they will not improve their offer nor come up with an alternative. They want you to not accept.

Why offer it?
Well, in some cases new jobs are designed to put "tenured" employees of base. I've seen that done. Can't dismiss the employee without cause. So offer a new job with a trial period. This is a new contract and they can then terminate at any time in the trial period without having to recompense the employee or offer them their old job back. (UK employment law obviously).
IF they are using it to appease you and find out something about you, it has cost them the interview time.

Or it is a genuine offer. So if you aren't happy with this they can up the offer or change the specification (its a made up job anyway so it can be whatever you can agree with them): they can "accessorise" this one, add functions or tamper with the job description until they can put together a job that you can both value at the sort of money you have asked for.

Or, this ends now with no job offer and no change. Except, you are now taken seriously and when they can find a job for you with the right package, you will be called.

Now note how different this is from the previous response.

One word makes all the difference:

.....and consequently I got offered the position of a "Process Engineer"

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com