Duct Smoke Detectors by Div 13,15 or 16?

[LGENE]

Each area seems abit different but here in the West many Electrical Engineers specifiy that the Duct Smoke Detectors should be provided by Div 15, installed by 15 and monitored by the Fire Alarm Contractor. After the Analog Addressable technology came out and many of the panels will allow you to view, adjust and print sensitivity levels of the detectors it would make sense to have Div 13851 (Fire Alarm) provide the DD units rather than having them monitor the Div 15 detectors with a module that would only tell you if it were in trouble or alarm rather than alot more information including the address that you could get on the Analog Addressable Duct Detectors. As Mechanical Engineers what do you normally do in this respect?

 

[MarauderX]

Still in 15 for us. We reference the other sections heavier than we used to, but it's still something that we provide so it doesn't fall through the cracks.

16: "But I thought 15 had it..."
15: "No way, that's been a Div 13 for a while now..."
13: "Since when??"

Don't want that to happen, so we still do it.

 

[LGENE]

I see your point. Without coordination it could get left out. With an Analog System the Duct Detectors really should be provided by Div 13 so you get sensors that can report when they are dirty and how dirty they are. The standard detectors don't provide all the extra information. I guess we will just have to wait a few years for everyone to get on the same page. Some Engineers in other states always spec that the Fire Alarm Contractor is to provide and other states lets 15 do it because of the lack of knowledge concering the new technology. Depending on which system goes into the building you would need to provide an EST detector for an EST system or a Notifier, Bosch, FCI etc....detector for the same system. Same problems occur in the Door hardware section when there is access control and a different contractor supplies the door frames and doors. On one project we had 3 order changes because at first the door hardware people provided the wrong strikes that would not fit the second time they were not compatible and the 3rd time we had the Security Contractor go to the site and verify and order the ones that would fit.

 

[lrod]

We find that electrical engineers spec the fire alarm system, but authority having jurisdiction (AHJ) will only accept shop drawings from licensed fire alarm contractors and they need to pull their own permit separate from the building permit.

 

[LGENE]

We are in Utah, there is no requirement for Fire Alarm Licensing at all. It seems that many of the Fire Alarm Companies just go off the Electrical Contractors permits since the EC is installing the Fire Alarm and the Fire Alarm Contractors are just selling the EC the equipment and programing the panel. The AHJ's are just starting to require more from the Fire Contractors and NICET II has been spoken about as a possible requirement for inspections. Thanks for your coments.

 

[ChrisConley]

MarauderX; your post made me choke on my coffee, thanks for the chuckle.

Just to add to the fun, CSI (CSC in Canada) the people who brought you NMS specifications have released the long awaited update.

With the new specifications numbers (we're now 21, 22, 23 maybe 24) there should be no question on what will fall where. Plumbing is separate from HVAC (yeah!), controls and electrical are clearly separated, fire protection including alarms and detections have their own sections.

My only hope is that the construction industry will make the change in my lifetime...I'm only 30 though so I stand a small chance.

**If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the precipitate.**