Duties in municiple/public works

To those that are involved with municiple/public works engineering.

I am curious on the regular types of duties. I'm thinking of making the transistion into a small town city engineering department. It seems exciting with a little more involvment in the construction and interaction with people. Please let me know what some good skills/qualities are desirable. I am comming from a structural and computer background, so I will be starting from the ground up in drainage, traffic, roads, surveying, etc. The job decriptions are extrememly general, and I don't give a solid impression of what the most common day to day tasks are.
Is an extensive background in hydrology and fluid mechanics needed. I think I can brush up on the fluids but a little concerned about my hydrology.

Thanks

 

[Qshake]

Let me apologize in advance if this sounds too crass and the job description a little mundane but it is from many years of experience.

As a small town engineer you will be in charge of a lot and of nothing all at the same time. Your duties will revolve around the political scene (yes, even in a small town) and you will be pulled and pushed into decisions that have little foundation in engineering judgement. Most likely your job duties will be that of review; review for compliance with the codes not review for the compliance of basic engineering principles. That means that you can't knock how the consultant did it as long as the work can be defended. You can only critique the presentation of the material and to see that all the i's are dotted and t's are crossed. For the most part you will oversee the public works maintenance people and the construction of drainage ditches or perhaps upgrading the old "v-ditch" to a pipe.

I don't know what has brought you to this fork in the road with structural engineering, but civil servant is hard way to make a living.

 

[Ron]

Qshake is right on target. Further, you will likely have "lay" people, such as City Council members or planning committees, trying to make engineering decisions for you (they often hold your career destiny in their hands, as well). If you are a licensed engineer, you will be obligated to politely tell them to shove it (under many state engineering laws, this is a requirement!!).

If you are looking for technical challenges relatively early in your career, this is not where you'll find them. You'll meet lots of political challenges, but little else.

 

[Jim6758]

I tried the small town engineering role after a military career and found the politics more than I could stomach. Ron is correct about engineering decisions being made by lay people, especially if they helped the Councilperson get elected. What's more, they will forget that you gave advice to the contrary when the system fails and hold you responsible. The larger Cities offer somewhat more insulation from the politics, but trying to get proper engineering standards set is like pulling eye teeth if it is going to cost some developer a few extra bucks. Don't worry about brushing up too long on hydrology. Ninety percent will be dealt with by using the Rational Formula;Q=CIA. You will need to review your state's water code, however, in dealing with storm drain questions. Unless you have a particularly strong stomach, I don't advise on making the switch.

 

[DaveVikingPE]

Ouch!

Been there and seen it. Ron's point about laypeople tyring to make enigneering decisions for you is the most painful part of the job (of the many). When I'm imvolved in such projects I often wonder why I even bothered to get an engineering degree. Heck, how hard can this stuff be? All engineering is is opening up a catalog and picking what costs the lowest, right?

I was working in dredging for several years and only once had the joy of working with a municipal enigneer who was a P.E. and had, thanks to his experience, the respect from everyone in his town. Usually, you get these bufoons who practice engineering by the insult method. If they can bully you enough they get a "good enough" project at no cost to them. If they don't get their way, "...you don't know what you're talking about."

On the other hand, if you are inclined to work well with people and know your Machiavelli and Dogbert, then you may find it a very rewarding job. Qshake is right about the kind of work, but you do get to spend time in the field -that's a lot of fun, I think.

 

[mikolay]

One of the other common challenges is finding new ways of getting programs implemented and projects built using new forms of inter-governmental cooperation and funding, and keeping the private side on the hook for improvements. In Wisconsin and perhaps elsewhere at this time and soft economy, the strategy is consolidation, downsizing, and cost sharing. One of the other challenging responsibilities is the planning of the 5 year capital improvements plan. The role of municipal engineer can offer an opportunity to excercise some leadership. Good luck.
Mikolay

 

[kanc]

To be sure, being a municipal engineer (especially as a department head) is a demanding job. But, if diversity is important to you, there is no better opportunity to practice your skills--both engineering AND non-engineering. "Compulator" will find his municipal experience to be quite useful in his later career moves, but he should expect to be a "generalist," which may prove difficult with his structural background. The municipal engineer's personality and style will go a long way towards finding the right "fit" with an employer. Most inportantly, for starters, is to understand what your new employer expects you to achieve in the position. Generally speaking, working with politicians is not that much different than working for private developers. You have to educate them when they expect you to ignore your P.E. responsibilities. Above all, be consistent and honest with all municipal factions. In my years of experience, I have always found it useful to stress that my only "requirement" of policy makers is that they receive all the engineering information (recommendations) before THEY make a lawful decision, which then HAS to be implemented by staff. The major drawback--don't expect decent pay unless you are joining a larger community. And, in the smaller towns, watch out for a (much) greater than 40-hour work week. Good Luck!

 

[jdaw]

I began working in 1998 with a small private consulting company in the wastewater industry. The job was great; I got the opportunity to do real-world design on my own, and had it checked by a very good PE. It was a great learning experience, but life led me back home where I began working for a county government in public works doing highway design, more appropriately called highway maintenance. The challenge was non-existent; the pay even more so. I found that the most important personality trait to have while working for government is "schmoozable". After 15 months I left and went back to the private industry with a large environmental consulting firm. The work was compartmentalized so much that I felt like a cog in a corporate machine. The 1.5 hour commute each way, and the 45 hour work week gave me plenty of time to think about what I wanted from my career, and what is important to me in life. Turns out that work is just something that pays the bills and provides the means for you to entertain yourself, namely $. So I ended up returning to the county job where, coincidently, I was reassigned to a position that allows me to make a lot of my own decisions in seeing a project from start to finish. It's great for me, now that I am a little older and wiser for the wear. It's just a matter of you knowing what you want from life, and going after it. Good luck and know that whatever choice you make can always be reversed.

 

[sgwpe1]

I'll add my 2 cents. I generally saw two sides to municpal work in which I was involved:
1 - capital improvements - municipality hires contractor to build road, sewers, water distribution systems, landfill...whatever - keep civilization as we know it running. You design it - they build it - with your oversight. If you get a good contractor, it is rewarding and can be fun - you work together, in a way, while still riding herd, but the effort is to get a smooth flow while maintaining your ethics and assuring production/construction of a servicable civil facility.
If the contractor is less competent, your job is more challenging and can be difficult, depending on the contractor's reception to education. Some was fun and some contributed greatly to my "grey-hair" engineer appearance. What support you get from the town and your supervisors ('til you become one) matters. We used to get along well with our town boards and counsels and they actually invited us to holiday parties and the like. Had some great contractors, too! Low bid and did a good job - town was happy, we had a confidence level in the work and the citizens appreciated the facilities - would actually bring out coolers with sodas to the crews. Wasn't all horror stories, although some projects made us more than earn our pay.
2 - review and recommendations for revisions to or recommend approval of applications for development. Mostly in these parts the municipal engineers, planners,etc. beat up pretty well on applicants and their consultants and pretty much get away with it. Although as the yin and yang of it go, as the development is wanted, there is typically some balance (more or less) achieved between overdesign and reasonable safeguards and servicability.

Depending on what type of challenges with which you like to deal and how well you can determine when appropriate to stand your ground and what will work, and how well you can do that, municipal work can be fun or a drag, or some of each at one time or another.

Hope that helps...you really gotta get a feel or the pulse of what goes on in the particular locale.

 

[AggieCE]

Compulator,

Here's my $0.02: If you want the experience of working for a small town/public works engineering, get a job with a consulting firm that serves as the City Engineer for a small town (or better yet, many small towns). You'll get all the experience with construction you'd want, get great experience working with people (contractor, city inspection and public works staff, city secretary/administrator/manager, P&Z, and council), plus make alot more money. And oh yeah, you won't have to constantly worry about getting fired by some idiot council member that doesn't know his you-know-what from a manhole because you required a developer to comply with the design standards/sign ordinance/etc. that he requested and approved without reading but which happens to inconvenience him because he has a behind-the-scenes deal going on in which he stands to lose money. Does that paint a pretty enough picture of it? I'm really not bitter, I just feel sorry for my friends that have to deal with this kind of stuff and I'm grateful that I get all of the advantages with few of the disadvantages of working directly for the council. I can only think of one reason to consider working for a city....the hours. You won't find alot of 40 hour weeks in consulting, but you are generally rewarded for the extra 5 - 10 hours per week. If you can handle that while balancing family/personal committments, you'll probably find it alot more challenging.

If I've offended anyone, I apologize. That's just my open and honest opinion safely offered from the anonymity of the internet

 

[sgwpe1]

Aside question to AggieCE...I am just wondering, is Aggie short for Agricultural student? Just wondering because my first degree is in Agriculture (before attending and graduating Civil Engineering school) and students with other majors called me Aggie. That would be rather uncanny that two Agricultural-Civil Engineers would be corresponding on the internet...anyway, just wondering.
Scott

 

[Bayou]

If you have been in the private field for awhile and you want a 40hr week with the only headaches is bureaucracy, then government is just fine for that. You really don't do engineering, you mainly review and check plans and meet with contractors and consultants.

Also what's uncanny is that an Aggie can use a computer. There aren't many at TAMU to learn on.

 

[ACtrafficengr]

Compulator,

If you do take the job, make sure to contact the Local Technical Assistance Program (LTAP) center in your state (assuming you're in the US). You'll find a lot of help and training available there for municipal highway folks. For example, check out our workshop offerings at

http://www.clrp.cornell.edu/workshops/workshops.htm

Other states' offerings will be different, but this should give you a good idea of what's out there. Check out

http://www.ltapt2.org/list.htm

to find the one in your state.

 

[AggieCE]

sgwpe1,

Sorry it took so long to reply...I had to wait for my turn on the only computer on the A&M campus (funny one, Bayou). My use of "Aggie" in my username refers to the fact that I'm a graduate of Texas A&M University. It's our nickname (like longhorns, seminoles, fightin' irish, etc.).

Bayou,

It sounds like I hurt your feelings. If so I apologize. I'm glad that you enjoy your civil service job, and I mean no disrespect to your profession; however, while perhaps too harshly put, my description of working for a municipality remains largely accurate, in my experience. I hope that your experience has been much better.