Earthwork Takeoff Software 2

[lulashooter]

I have been fluently using Agtek for about 10 years Site 98 for the past few years. I have recently taken a different job with another contractor. They have Paydirt w/ terramodel and I have brought in a couple of CAD files. I really don't like the way Paydirt handles the information. If you bring in a curb line to utilize as a reference for entering a paving section; Paydirt makes it a contour with "0" elevation and enfluences the takeoff.I previewed a demo of Agtek 3d and like it, but it and 2 other modules is about $20k. I have viewed demos of quest, Earthworks pro, In site; and they seem to work about the same as Paydirt.
The person I have working for me performing takeoffs would not be capable of using a "true" design software.

Is there another software that works at Agtek's level, but a more affordable price?

 

[Dirtmaster]

First, I am not really sure I understand why you need
to inport the curb line. I have not used the current Paydirt
program, but I think you can import the curb line, then
copy it to a sub grade adjustent layer, (there will be no elevation associated with the layer, only a thickness that you will have to assign). Then delete the original "0" contour line.

The choices of software that I am aware of are:

Agtek (bottom of my favorites)
Paydirt
Timberline Cut-Fill (Really Paydirt Jr)
Earthworks or is it Earthworx?
Insite
Quest
I have used all of the above and have issues with each.
Importing cad files is not an easy application to write. Different engineers produce cadfiles differently.

My experience has taught me that importing "existing" contour elevations usually works well, but Importing "Proposed" contours requires so much time prepairing the file for import that I would rather digitize the data myself.

 

[lulashooter]

The reasons I would bring in the curb line or edge of pavement, bldg pad, edge of existing street, etc. is so I can use these lines to enter subgrade sectional areas, proposed regions or limit of work( ex: edge of existing street ), segregating report regions(Agtek) or AOI's (Paydirt). I also used to bring in the property lines. The reason: Many jobs I would bid/negotiate may change 2-3 times during pricing, then 2-3 more times after contract. I would use the property corners to tie my plan to the digitizer(not required, but somtimes my preference)these tie points are less likely to change position, whereas a bldg corner or p-lot corner will. Believe it or not I have taken off a job, entered 100+ boreholes then a revision is sent over the next day and the engineer has the drawing in different coordinates miles away, and rotated (for the fun of it, I quess). So I want to tie back to my original takeoff file instead of scrapping the cleanup on existing contours and many boreholes. I just feel more comfortable being able to use points to tie in with that shouldn't change in relation to each other. I just prefer bringing in more layers/info than I may need, if it is 0 elev it is still there, but is not an enfluence on the takeoff quantity.
I appreciate dirtmaster's tip on bringing in a curb line the copying it to a subgrade area. Does it have to be a continuous line or closed loop?
I was also very frustrated with Agtek site98, mainly because it was a DOS program but still high $. I could still get alot of info from 98. The new 3d appears to do what I want it to but just wanted to check out more options and opinions of users prior to taking the plunge. I may can get tuned up on Terramodel to do a better cleanup and squeeze what I can out of Paydirt.

 

[tridalexc]

I to have evaluated many software packages on the market after using Paydirt for several years and AGTEK with a past employer. You should try evaluating Carlson Takeoff. It is much like AGTEK but is much less expensive at about 9000.00 for a single user.

 

[lulashooter]

Thanks for the tip tridalexc. I have heard of Carlson Survey. I'll check this out!

 

[Dirtmaster]

Since Paydirt does not require the reference points to be
outside the limits of data being digitized, any well spaced
points can be used.

I prefer to use existing features as reference points since
a design change will not cause the points to move as a
parking lot corner would.

Fire hydrants, utility poles, man holes, contour lines crossing an edge of pavement are a few examples.

As far as importing the curb line/edge of pavement and copying it to a subgrade adjustment layer is concerned, I do not think it has to be a closed figure, I think it will close itself if there is only one opening. As I said before, I not up on the current version of Paydirt.

 

[RacerChuck]

I have used AGTEK from it's inception to around 1997, PAYDIRT and QUEST temporarily around 1998, and INSITE since 1997.
The only time I ever look back with INSITE is to watch the others trying to catch up.

My biggest complaint with AGTEK, back in 1997, was that you had to digitize elevations around a region to make a subgrade. Unless you were creating a region with a "daylight" around the perimeter, this was very tedious. Right off the bat INSITE solved this problem with their "Quick Stack" subgrade method.

I’m assuming that you want to import a curb line to encompass a paving subgrade.
Are there any other subgrades inside the paving area (add’l landscape islands, another building)??

When you import with INSITE, you can assign it a hierarchy number to either supercede or be subordinate to other subgrades. This is especially useful when you have a huge parking lot with a building in the middle that you have already digitized or imported.

As far as Dirtmaster’s experience with ease of importing existing vs. proposed contours, my experience is that both are either usable or totally unusable (with all forms of Earthwork Software). The problem is how the draftsman inputs the info in the original CAD File. If contours (existing or proposed) are represented by broken splines with no elevation values, then manual digitizing is probably your only option. Which if that’s the case, the CAD file was never meant to be calculable and an earthwork takeoff is all that more important (how can an engineer be cognizant of a site’s balance if the math was missing from the design in the first place).
However, if the contours are properly represented by polylines with elevations assigned, INSITE will import into either existing or proposed with equal ease. You can edit elevations to splines after import, but sometimes the number of them makes manually digitizing the better effort vs. return.

I can’t remark on AGTEK, as it’s been a while since I have used it.

I have had such bad experiences with PAYDIRT’s technical support (or more specifically lack thereof) that I consider them the industry standard of a good bad example. Of more concern is the fact that you can digitize or import a job twice and get two substantially different volume reports.

In summary, I just want to be specific that of the list of Software mentioned in this thread, all are not the same.

AGTEK rocks if your primary focus is creating a mass diagram for long sections of highway via X-Section input.

INSITE is my choice for getting a large site development project done as accurately and efficiently as possible.

PAYDIRT is my recommendation if you’re my competitor.


Chuck Redman
Siteworx Estimating Services

http://www.siteworxestimating.com

631-738-0707