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'Educated' opinions on climate change 41

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csd72

csd72

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May 4, 2006
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As engineers we are educated in physics and chemistry and should have a reasonable idea on what really effects the energy consumption that causes climate change. I am looking for peoples opinions on what suggestions have been good ideas to reduce your individual impact. Alternatively what suggestions have you heard that are utter nonsense.

It would be good to hear comments from engineers on this matter.
 
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I like the idea of purchasing carbon credits to offset your polluting the environment. Maybe that idea will spread. How about if I rob a bank of $1 million, then pay $200k for crime credits having the money go to law enforcement, crime prevention groups, burglar bars, etc.

Not a bad deal and I get to net the $800k.
 
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Here's what's up with the BBC:



Investors fall short on climate risk assessment – IIGCC
London, 17 April: Investors are more aware of climate change than previously, but are failing to fully assess the risks it poses when the financial implications are not clear, according to the European investor body Institutional Investors Group on Climate Change (IIGCC).
In its first report of members’ activities, the IIGCC found that investors are struggling to assess the risk posed by uncertainties over future climate change regulations and the physical impacts of global warming. But an increasing number of asset managers are focusing on the issue and are expanding their ability to analyse the effects of climate change.
“The IIGCC’s report highlights that the investment community has come a long way in understanding and analysing the investment implications from climate change, but also that there is room for further progress from investors, companies and government,” said Peter Dunscombe, chairman of the IIGCC and also the head of investments for the BBC Pension Trust.
The report also found that asset managers increasingly are looking to invest in low-carbon or clean energy funds, are working with companies to improve their disclosure of greenhouse gas emissions and are using environmental rankings or analysing climate change impacts on their whole portfolio. And around 80% of pension funds and asset owners are asking their managers to exercise their voting rights on climate change issues.
But only 30% of respondents are integrating climate change considerations when appointing fund managers or seek advice on the matter from their advisors, reports the IIGCC. Investors are also failing to engage with companies on unavoidable climate change risks and climate-friendly products.
At the time of compiling the report, which covers activities until the end of 2007, the IIGCC had 21 signatories with combined assets of €1.4 trillion ($2.2 trillion) under management. The group now has 47 members, representing €4 trillion worth of assets.




Updated 17 April 2008
 
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Well, Greg, you just know that that letter will do the trick.
The response will be:
1) vertical filing (into the waste bin with other letters from "crackpots")
2) claim they are all in the pay of the oil companies
3) massage the temperature data yet again.

JMW
 
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Many of the endorsers of the Manhattan declaration have a Bachelor in Science or a Bachelor in Arts. Nothing wrong with a BA or a BSc, but these are not exactly specialists (although that is what it is being implied). The first guy in the list is an MD specializing in infectious disease. Sorry, can't see how he is a qualified endorser. There is also an expert in Cancer Studies. I am sure they are all great people, but why are they on this list?


"The following individuals, all well-trained in science and technology or climate change-related economics and policy, have allowed their names to be listed as endorsing the Manhattan Declaration on Climate Change:"


 
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Well, let's not discount the fact that Malaria outbreaks were one of the IPCC's (misleading) claims about he perils of global warming.

If the IPCC can call on a wider variety of experts than simply climatologists, then I guess the detractors can too.

The problem with Malaria is that it is not especially a problem of warm climates and thus warming would not actually cause malaria to be a bigger problem. I believe it is quite prevalent in Siberia, come to that.

This is mentioned by Al Gore and in this article debunking him (by another "not a climatologist")

JMW
 
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"Well, let's not discount the fact that Malaria outbreaks were one of the IPCC's (misleading) claims about he perils of global warming. "

This would make sense assuming Malaria is the topic, but the role of this particular MD or the other MDs is not clear.

"If the IPCC can call on a wider variety of experts than simply climatologists, then I guess the detractors can too."

Generally, a BA or a BSc is not considered to be an expert.

My apologies, the previous link does not work, here is a new one:

 
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The first guy in the list is an MD specializing in infectious disease.
Click to expand...
Er, pardon me, but the begins with:

Amesh A. Adalja, MD,

and ends with:

A. Zichichi, PhD,

.....and that is alphabetical is it not?

So the point is.....?

And yes, Malaria is one part of the topic.

The whole campaign about Global Warming is that it is said to be bad for us.

If it is neither good nor bad then who cares?

So it isn't just whether we believe in AGW or GW, but whether we also believe that it is good for us or bad for us.
Much of the campaign is to try and pursuade us that GW is bad for us and ergo we should do something to stop it.
If there were more money in doing something to promote global warming I wouldn't wonder that the arguments would all be slanted that way.

IPCC made a thing about malaria and Al Gore Says mosquitoes like the warmer weather and fly higher.
So it is not necessary to just understand the question of whether global warming is happening or not, whether it is caused by man (how relevant is that to the argument except to pursuade us that what we can have an impact.
We'd be in a sad way if we didn't think we could do something to regulate the climate of our own planet, because if you can't do anything there's not much point in shelling out all those taxes is there?

It is also important to know whether it is good for us or bad for us.
Our actions depend on (a) is it something we can do something about and (b) should we be doing something to promote global warming or prevent global warming?

JMW
 
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Once again, the role of this particular MD or the other MDs is not clear (i.e. was it because of the Malaria claim that you outlined or was it for another reason, and if so what reason?).

You are correct to point out that the last one on the list is a PhD and a Professor in Advanced Physics (that makes sense to me). But why are all the BA's and BSc's on the list?
 
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An oncologist might be concerned that global warming will make people wear less, go to the beach more etc and hence increase risk of skin cancer.

A lot of the nastier deseases come from warmer places, as in the term 'tropical diseases'. So if more places are warm one assumes there simplistically there is a risk that some of these diseases will spread. However this may be an over simplification as others note above.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
 
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I just mentioned malaria as an example in response to the comment about the first person on the list being an MD in infectious diseases i.e. relevance.
I would hope there are some other specialities represented such as economists.
This is because the Global Warming issue is not a simplistic black and white issue. It touches on many other aspects.

All very well saying the planet is warming. Suggesting serious economic measures to combat it requires that we have some one on board on either side who understands something of economics. Likewise many other issues are involved. I would guess at needing, like the TV news programs, a list of diverse and esoteric specialists all on a list to be trotted out when needed.

For example, Polar bear deaths.... need a Polar Bear expert and someone who understands epidemiology.

It is a principal in legal cases that the defence can call its own specialists specifically to refute the specialists on the opposing side. Same here.

Moreover, if these different disciplines were not represented then the first people to point that out would be the opposition who would claim they couldn't otherwise understand all the issues.

A more important question would be why shouldn't any concerned group include a variety of specialisations? Don't you think it is important that they are there?



JMW
 
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All good points, for example the veterinarian could be there because of the polar bear issue (it is possible I guess), or for some other reason. They certainly haven't made that clear.

And then the question still remains why all the BA's and BSc's in the list. Not to knock them, there are experts with a Bachelors or with a high school diploma, but generally they are exceptions and not the rule.
 
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ChristAust: Great and illuminating article by Phil Chapman. From men like him and others I've read such as astromomer Dr. Hugh Ross I have come to believe that global warming is 90% astromonical and 10% anatomical.
 
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Clear and I'd sure hate to have an astronautical engineer try and take my appendix out but I might trust his insights into astronautical engineering.

Or maybe not.

Actually, that could be one of the greatest services or disservices the Global Warming debate has produced; once upon a time we were content as a population and as a whole, to trust the "experts".

Now we question them more freely and more readily than ever before, which may be a good thing, but at the same time, we now no longer know who, if anyone, to trust. That will make it a great deal harder to get along.

Wondering about "experts" our attitude to them and their attitudes to each other:



JMW
 
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Experts: 'Those who know more and more, about less and less, until they know absolutely everything there is too know about nothing'.

Given the multi-disciplinary complexities of climate change, the only experts I'd really trust (regarding an overall opinion) are statisticians.
 
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Can't see myself trusting a statistician. After all something like 70% of all statistics are made up on the spot;-).

EXPERT

Ex as in "has been"

Spert as in "drip under pressure"

Still want to trust one?

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
 
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The only experts I plan to trust are historians--25 years from now they should be able to tell me if the poles melted in 2010. 100 years from now they should be able to tell my decendents if California is under water.

The rest of it is simply fun with numbers and masturbation with computer models.

David
 
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Good point zdas04, but it doesn't help today's planners much!
Speaking of planning, for all the official belief in impending climate disaster, is anybody actually designing things differently now? In my field (forestry), the 'experts' (including government land managers) generally accept the inevitablity of a 2 degree temperature rise, and predict massive industrial and ecological impacts. But is anybody planting species better suited to a new, warmer climate? Not as far as I can find. Is it the same in other fields? Is anybody working to new, warmer-climate specifications? Or do the planners not believe in it that much...
 
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