EIT v. Junior v. Intermediate v. Senior

[BeamMeUpStudent]

How many years of experience are you considered to be junior, intermediate and senior? Does having your designation make you an intermediate right away? Is junior engineer considered the same as EIT? Or do you become a junior engineer after getting your designation?

 

[rb1957]

EIT (in my jurisdiction) is not a job title, but a professional designation ... someone who has qualified but has served enough time (in the trenches).

So your initial position could be "junior", but some companies may use "EIT" as the entry level.

Companies tend to toss around titles, particularly when hiring, as a way to inflate your initial salary.

For me, an intermediate would be 5-10 years, and a senior 10-20. BUT, personality and ability (and how much and how quickly someone learns) play a part.; you can get 1 year's experience 10 times over.

 

[3DDave]

As far as I know, a person is an EIT after they have taken the EIT test. They are an EIT for about 4 years before being eligible for the PE test.

This mainly applies for structural or civil engineering. Working in most other areas do not require a PE license, though some companies find that PEs enhance their offerings; similar to having people with advanced degrees on their advertising.

All other job titles are made up by the company and there isn't a standardized means to verify the abilities of an engineer from one company to another based on job title.

 

[dfus]

An EI/EIT (engineering intern/engineer in training) is what you become in the state's eyes once you pass the Fundamentals of Engineering exam after college. I have a certificate from the state board that says I am an Engineering Intern with a EI number and everything. That's the official designation for where I am. I usually see "junior engineer" used to mean the same thing but used more as a colloquial designation.

I'll caveat this next part by saying that I'm speaking as a structural guy and this may vary for other disciplines, but I'll stop being considered a "junior" engineer or EI once I get my PE license. After that point, calling someone an intermediate or senior engineer is just a "colloquial" indication of that person's experience. There's no rigid definition that I'm aware of.

 

[mfgenggear]

An EI/EIT (engineering intern/engineer in training) is what you become in the state's eyes once you pass the Fundamentals of Engineering exam after college. I have a certificate from the state board that says I am an Engineering Intern with a EI number and everything. That's the official designation for where I am. I usually see "junior engineer" used to mean the same thing but used more as a colloquial designation.

I'll caveat this next part by saying that I'm speaking as a structural guy and this may vary for other disciplines, but I'll stop being considered a "junior" engineer or EI once I get my PE license. After that point, calling someone an intermediate or senior engineer is just a "colloquial" indication of that person's experience. There's no rigid definition that I'm aware of.

I am amazed

 

[dfus]

I am amazed

by what?

 

[GregLocock]

It varies a lot, but at least in automotive very roughly junior the first 2 years, engineer up until10-15, to senior (not everyone gets that) and then titles depend on your career track and the structure in the company on the company. But it does vary a lot, I've been progressively graduate engineer, engineer, senior engineer, engineer, senior engineer, engineer, senior engineer.

 

[Gr8blu]

In my experience, it is not time in service that equates to a specific title - with the exception of EIT (engineer in training). If applied for, an engineering student can become an EIT by first passing the FE (Fundamentals of Engineering) exam, then entering the workforce in an engineering capacity under the direct supervision of qualified engineers in their chosen field. Everyone else, from "engineer" to "junior/senior/principal/chief" receive their designations based on the level of responsibility within their organization. The unwritten caveat to that is that such titles are not necessarily transferrable between employers - because their requirements for responsibility may be different.

There is another exception that I have discovered recently: the designation is "regional engineer". The distinction here is that the engineer is not simply responsible for tasks at a single site but is expected to provide engineering expertise on a broad array of topics to multiple entities within a geographic region. The position generally entails a fair bit of travel (at least 50% of the time on the road). Most engineers who have "regional" responsibilities have reached the equivalent of at least senior if not principal engineer in their career paths.

 

[Ron247]

I may be wrong, but in the US, I don't think you can call yourself any kind of an engineer until you pass the engineering exam in your state after working 3-4 years under the supervision of a licensed engineer. While you probably can call yourself an Engineer in Training [EIT}, you cannot be presented by your employer as being an engineer. I agree with Gr8blu that it is ability and not time that later warrants some enhanced "title" but these titles are not specified entities. I can call you Nicky New Guy Engineer if I want, or Executive Engineer. No real rules. In my first job upon graduating, I was a Designer 1, not an Engineer 1. I hated it, sounded to me like I designed hats or dresses.

And for those graduating, even if you are graduating with a PhD, if you want to become licensed in the future, make sure you go to work with a company with a licensed/registered engineer who will be supervising you. If not, you are wasting your time. I know many who have made that mistake.

 

[dik]

I come from a different time period. I was designing multi-storey buildings within a few years of getting my seal. This included the architectural portion. I had no liability insurance. It was possible 'back then'.

 

[GregLocock]

I may be wrong, but in the US, I don't think you can call yourself any kind of an engineer until you pass the engineering exam in your state after working 3-4 years under the supervision of a licensed engineer.

Well, unless you design cars or aeroplanes or medical devices or missiles or rockets or semiconductors or computers or Federal construction projects or....

 

[Ron247]

Here is where I get this from. I am registered in 3 states, and I think all 3 have similar verbiage in their engineering licensure boards. There is an exemption clause and probably most Fed, automotive and large industrial plants get that exemption but I imagine smaller companies do not. I imagine the amount of insurance they must carry makes a big difference and helps get the exemption.

 

[IRstuff]

In states with an industrial exemption, if you work for a covered company, you can call yourself an engineer without a PE license

 

[3DDave]

I think the main protest is using "Professional Engineer" as an identifier. Some states have litigious Professional Engineering boards and will pounce on anyone using evidence of an engineering degree as an assault on their sensibilities and an encroachment on their protected area of work. A dire protectionist racket.

I think the line should be drawn for "Licensed Professional Engineer" as a title as that should be backed by adherence to the board standard and evidence of a liability insurance policy.

 

[Ron247]

Out of curiosity, is anyone familiar with what you must do to get the exemption? I know exemptions exist where I practice but I imagine the exemption was granted years ago.

As fa as the use of the word "Engineer", in a plant or factory setting, it is far less of an issue than it is in what a lot of us do. Customers are mostly internal in plant settings and the plant bears any outside litigation issues such as product safety. I have a residential contractor who repeatedly refers to an employee he has as "my engineer says". The homeowner he is talking to does not know the difference. He hired the person straight out of college and thinks that graduating with a 4-year CE degree made him an engineer automatically. I have already told the contractor that he can call him an engineer all he wants but the first time his employee refers to himself as an engineer, the employee may have a legal problem. I also warned him about his employee saying it in front of me, as it pushes me into an ethical dilemma because by the rules I am supposed to report him. I have never met the employee face to face. I have never heard of the employee calling himself an engineer, but his boss does. I think he has worked for the contractor so long, he almost cannot go to an engineering firm because he most likely would have to take a cut in pay. While, he may have been good in school, he has not had a mentor to further train him. I also do not think he knew about needing to work under the supervision of a licensed engineer.

 

[IRstuff]

It's usually baked into the PE law itself. In California, there are a multitude of exemptions, such as employees of communications companies, etc. The general industrial exemption shows something like this:

6747. Exemption – industrial corporations and public utilities(a) This chapter, except for those provisions that apply to civil engineers and civil engineering, shall not apply to the performance of engineering work by a manufacturing, mining,public utility, research and development, or other industrial corporation, or by employees of that corporation, provided that work is in connection with, or incidental to, the products, systems, orservices of that corporation or its affiliates.

(b) For purposes of this section, “employees” also includes consultants, temporary employees, contract employees, and those persons hired pursuant to third-party contracts.

 

[Ron247]

Thanks IRstuff.

I see one reason I am less familiar with it, I am a Civil Engineer (California's only direct exclusion) although all the states I practice in refer to all of us as a Professional Engineer, they do not specify a discipline.