Eng-Tips is the largest engineering community on the Internet

Intelligent Work Forums for Engineering Professionals

Electric car drive

Status
Not open for further replies.

higdig

Electrical
Jul 19, 2008
4
0
0
Good day,

We wish to get into electric car drives. Actually, we want to have a brushless DC machine for each of the car wheels.
(so that's 4 DC machines per car)

We know this is a knew way of doing it, that no-one's ever tried before, and so it'll be risky. -but it will make for smaller size since the motors are in the wheels.

We'll use a battery for power.

We will have coils around the stator of each wheel and simply switch current in and out of them as the wheel turns. We will have to sense the rotary position of the wheel so that we know when to switch current through which coil.
We will also need to know the actual and demanded rotary speed of the wheel so that we know whether to pulse the coils with a greater or lesser duty cycle.

We will also have to sense coil current so that we don't run the iron into saturation and so that we don't melt the coils.

Also, we'll switch current into each of the coils using a four transistor H-bridge...the reason for this being that it will allow "regen"...where during braking the wheel acts like a generator and puts power back into the battery.

We know that we need four quadrant operation since we want to be able to go... 1. forwards,... 2. backwards, and be able to do... regen going both.... 3. forwards, -and.... 4. backwards...making for 4 quadrant operation.

...It all sounds deceptively simple.

We believe that just to check that our theory works.....we should start with just a little model car, with very small wheels, probably just 4 inch diameter wheels to start with.

We will need to control the coil currents well because what if one wheel hits a skid patch?....or when the car turns a corner and the inner wheels are supposed to go slower than the outer but with the same torque?


If we get this small model working, -will it be straightforward to scale up to the full car size?

....people tell me that with higher power power-systems, all sorts of transient electrical effects come into play and things start going wrong badly and unpredictably.

Is this true?

Also, what kind of power would we need for the four motors for an electric car that could up to do say 80 miles per hour? (one motor for each of the four wheels)
 
Replies continue below

Recommended for you

burnt2x,
Komatsu has 100s of similar diesel electric trucks in use here in the oil sands and coal mines. 930E, 830E etc with GE wheel motors. Some owners perceive better peformance and reliability compared with the mechanical trucks, and CAT is now building a 360 ton truck equivalent to their 797 with electric drive; apparently to be exhibited at MinExpo in September.
 
Nothing new here.

Yet one more company that has beaten you to the punch.


I have often looked at the sparks seen under subway trains at night and realised that these are caused due to the fact that the drives in the bogeys are not absolutely synchronized and some bogeys are driving their wheel set harder than others, causing spin and sparks.

Yeah, or maybe the third-rail paddle is making intermittent contact with third-rail. Let's see, DC voltage, thousands of amps, a whole lot of inductance. Nah, no way that could cause a spark.
 
The increase in unsprung mass is not the end of the world for a car driving on smooth roads. An interesting question for those who repeat this factoid is to ask them to explain exactly what difference the average driver would see. Is it really so important?

Mitsubishi had a nice demonstrator using wheel motors, but have recently gone for the more conventional alternative.


I'm in two minds. if you have a ground-up redesign then outboard wheel motors seem very attractive for a small car. At the same time I don't like sticking expensive fragile bits out at the corners where they'll hit kerbs and potholes.



Cheers

Greg Locock

SIG:please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
 
Re wheel motors

It is not about motors surviving. It is more about driver and car surviving when you get into a sharp curve. Perhaps with some monor bumps. Unsprung mass is no good in such a situation. Why do you think there are test traces where manueverbility is tested? Why do you think there are lawsuits about car accidents caused by unstable cars?

Wheel motors work in mining equipment simply because they are not driven like cars.

Gunnar Englund
--------------------------------------
100 % recycled posting: Electrons, ideas, finger-tips have been used over and over again...
 
Back to the inboard brakes

Jaguar had them on their IRS system. As far as I know Corvette did not. Jaguar rear ends ere very popular Hot Rodders as they had a modular independent relatively robust rear end.

Citroen had a inboard font disk brake system on their D series from about 1955.

Regards

eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
 
Umm

As already mentioned, iIt was done in 1900 by Porsche.

Not previously mentioned, in 1901, Porsche developed and successfully raced a racing version and also developed a 4 wheel drive version. 108 years ago ind of establishes "prior art".

Regards

eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
 
The more I read this thread the more I think it is just a dreamer post. Just the OP saying it is new and risky and never tried before makes me throw the flag never mind the rest of the postings.

Interesting note about the Mini - there are blocks under the wheels. Did they forget the emergency brake?

Actually, I should take back what I posted about it not working in practice. There are some powerful magnets available that can be used to make high power/weight motors that could be light enough to work. As far as the electronics - processing power is advancing to the point is is possible on that side. So, yes, it's possible.


 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top