Electrical Part in the Project 2

[NickParker]

How do you manage when the mechanical equipments are not finalized early in the project as it happens in every other project. There would be frequent changes in the electrical power requirement of the loads until the mechanical capacity of the loads are finalized.
1. The Electrical team could not exactly estimate the total load in the plant
2. Cannot arrive at the size of the transformer.
3. Cannot select the exact cable sizes.
So on & on

All of which delays the ordering materials/panels etc, which inturn delays the project completion. Yes, we would add some margin and approximately we can arrive at, but still many reworks are required after the final selection of mechanical loads.

Expert experiences / approach in this situation are welcome!

 

[Skogsgurra]

It depends a lot on what plant and what size. Decent margins are often inadequate. And the MBA:s have no understanding.

I try and get top management involved as soon as possible and make them understand that there's a choice - either a large margin and the costs associated with it or the rework and late delivery of key components and the costs associated with that. I try to keep MBA:s away from those meetings. Or at least make them feel that they are not wanted or that they will be ignored.

If nothing else works, I bring future plans and increased production up. That often makes it easy to get a final decision from the owner/top management. And make sure that there's a meeting protocol signed by the top guy.

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.

 

[iceworm]

How do you manage when the mechanical equipments are not finalized early in the project as it happens in every other project. There would be frequent changes in the electrical power requirement of the loads until the mechanical capacity of the loads are finalized.

Gunnar had a pretty good answer:

I try and get top management involved as soon as possible and make them understand that there's a choice - either a large margin and the costs associated with it or the rework and late delivery of key components and the costs associated with that.

What you are discussing is really a scheduling issue. I, however, was never any good at the "make them (top management) understand" part. The top management concern is always about the money. And it should be. If the project doesn't make money, no one will sign paychecks. However, as long as the management bonus' is based on short term income, projects will be based on least capital investment. Issues such as creditable project timelines, life cycle costs, ease of maintenance, even reliability, are in second place. I have not seen a change in that philosophy in 50 years, I don't expect there will be a change.

Once I figured that out, about thirty years ago, I picked a career path where generally, that wasn't a problem. I'm an industrial grade field dog - those of us that take those beautiful drawings, that were designed such that the equipment fit on paper really well, and build something that is safe, reliable, and fits the customers requirements. I am one of the few people that have managed to claw their way down from management back to engineer.

My involvement with the level of meetings you and Gunnar are discussing is generally limited to technical expert. Conversations like:

"Yes, we can do that. It will require we violate a law of physics, which we can do, but it costs a lot of money. However, the next issue I see here requires a second physics law violation. We can usually do one, but generally not two."​

My approach: Run away from design house jobs. There's no money in it - unless you choose to not have a life.** So, don't worry about it.

In the mean time: The mechanicals control the job. Production doesn't care how the pump gets turned, they just want the RPM right and the Torque available. When you get the final load data, you will provide the final power design. And when there are significant design changes, you will put in for the cost overruns.

Life Happens

carl

Harmless flakes working together can unleash an avalanche of destruction

 

[iceworm]

Forgot the **
The worms's eye view of Design House Jobs and no requirements for a life:
Forget the Masters in Engineering.
Study

Languages, maybe Russian, Arabic, Chinese
Get your MBA​

just saying, not telling

the worm

Harmless flakes working together can unleash an avalanche of destruction

 

[ScottyUK]

iceworm,

There are tactics for dealing with this: you know they'll knock 10% out of whatever you propose, so design in 30% margin with the expectation of losing that 10%. Hide contingency funds everywhere except the budget section named 'contingency': that's the easiest place for the short-sighted to cut from your budget, so put a little in there knowing you'll lose it and stash your real slush fund elsewhere in the places where it's hard for the technically-challenged to analyse with certainty.

 

[iceworm]

And I'm sure these tactics have worked well for you and Gunnar - and will continue to work well. This is not news. But, it is also not my career path choice. That's why they hire guys like you and Gunnar - you can do this. Although it seems a bit ludicrous to think the top management is sufficiently stupid they don't know this is going on.

Okay, maybe I'm wrong on this. I really have never gone wrong underestimating the management.

True conversation: Me, area manager, vice president standing close - listening.
AM: Worm, your price to put in the equipment is over our budget.
Me: We discussed the specs to get you what you wanted. You asked for the most cost effective method to install. That is what I gave you. Where do you want me to go from the "most cost effective method"? If you want to compromise the specs, we can discuss that.
AM: No, we want what we discussed.
Me: Then budget is not my problem - it is yours.
AM: (About to have an apoplectic fit) &*#&^^
VP: Worm is right. Budget isn't his problem. Uh Worm, think you could work with him the get the specs to meet the budget?
Me: Of course. Come on Bob. Don't heart attack on me till after the job is done. I ain't doing mouth to mouth on you.

Harmless flakes working together can unleash an avalanche of destruction