Emergency or extreme braking lights

[lawrie]

Does anyone know the legalities of either having and intense red brake light come on under extreme braking eg when the ABS activates or alternatively have a rapidly flashing red light to indicate the same severe braking.
I would be interested in European laws as well as US.
thanks.

 

[evelrod]

That was the reasoning behind the 1986 law mandating the high mounted third brake light. The so called "anti collision" light. Here in southern California I haven't seen any appriciable difference in rear enders on the freeways.
European light laws are not necessarily applicable to the US as the driving habits and roadways are often quite different.
Bottom line---We don't need another, redundant, brake light. We need better driver training, restrict cell phone usage, NO cup holders (your supposed to be driving, not dining out),and, IMHO, restrictive licensing for drivers under 18 (ie. no non-adult passengers) and a graduated license for the rest of us (based on experience and skill level)!

Rod

PS: In Europe, a driver license can cost as much as $2000 and require a mandatory driver training course, even for adults !!!

 

[lawrie]

Ive heard that in Europe folks use their hazard/warning lights when approaching something dangerous to indicate that its not just normal braking. Something attention grabbing to tell you to brake quick rather than wait for your brain to process the visual data and realise that you are infact approaching the vehicle infront at a significant closing speed would be helpfull. I keep a safe distance,(at least 2secs behind the car infront) but am aware that my 'thinking time' eats into this in addition to 'reaction time'.
I agree evelrod, obviously better driving and more attention paid to the road would help but until you have your first accident or near accident people tend not to treat 60mph serriously enough.

Anyway are there any restrictions on such brake lights?

 

[TheBlacksmith]

Yes Europe has many differant laws. The early BMW's in order to be complient with an European law that required illumintion of the side of the car adjacent to a roadway when on the shoulder (perhaps since changed) would illuminate the tailight and parking light on the side selected by the turn signal lever if it was moved to the right or left turn position with the ignition off.

Back to this thread, that is why we have the third brake light. As a matter of course I now, if forced to slow abrubtly just over a hill or around a bend by slowed traffic ahead, engage my four way hazard lights until I am sure the guy behind me doing 70 while eating, talking on the cell and consulting his road map is aware of the fact he is about to scratch the paint on my 6000 pound rated reciever hitch unless he too slows down. These would also be just some more bulbs that idiots wouldn't bother to replace until they fail their annual motor vehicle inspection in those states that require same.

Blacksmith

 

[RITelectric]

I recently read about experiments to create
'psychological' brake lights - designed to more quickly stimulate drivers' reactions to hard-braking in front of them. The idea is that once a brake force is applied beyond some predetermined threshold, the brake lights pulse in a pattern which causes an optical illusion, forcing the brain to respond reflexively, the way it would when an object is thrown toward an unprepared person. In effect, it tricks our autonomous reflexes into braking before we think to brake. I imagine if a study shows significant response, then it could back up legislation to change any current regulations that may restrict such operation on a wide scale basis. Who knows, maybe soon enough it will be mandatory operation...

 

[evelrod]

RITelectric---Sorry to say your too late. Quite a few years ago the Motorcycle Safety 'something-or-other', I forget, ran a series of tests on a new safety light and brake system for motorcycles. I had a new Goldwing at the time and the dealer was going to install it for free (I declined the offer). Several other customers tried them. As I remember the system "pulsed" the headllight at a frequency that was supposed to do as you suggest and make the rider more visible to oncomeing traffic, a good idea. It also caused the brakelight to come on flashing at a slow frequency when you rolled off the throttle to a closed position and as you applied the brakes the frequency increased to the full on at near max brake effort. I still see the 'pulsing headlight' from time to time but have never seen the brake deal on any bike. Perhaps the system did not work??? or if it did, it was too costly??? Perhaps we, as individuals, respond differently to a given frequency of 'flashing lights' (my vote)"!!!

I do like the new neon/LED type tail lights. There is much less time delay between switch on and light emission (they cycle much faster than conventional bulbs). A more intense light in daylight, always a bonus.

Rod

 

[RITelectric]

Rod,

That's a new one on me... I've never heard about pulsing headlights - I imagine seeing that would distract me from the road more than anything else.

Carnage: great point... something I never thought of when I first read about that. Everyone would have to have these lights to reduce risk - otherwise they's just displace the risk. You might see the advanced-brake car causing a rear-ender behind him when the third car follows the second car too closely.

 

[evelrod]

Run over to Wal-Mart and grab a street bike magazine. The headlight setup is still offered. I just saw a bike a couple of days ago with the setup. I 'pulses' the light at something like 2hz, a guess. I said before that I had never seen the brake light deal but, on reflection I do recall seeing one on a BMW once.

Carnage, as you probably deduced by now, I am a bit of a T type when it comes to motor vehicles. I have raced since 1958 and rode bikes from 1949 to 1988 and my philosophy was "the best defense is a good offense". It got me many, many traffic tickets---but I am still here to tell about it!!!

Rod

PS to all this. Re my first post as it contains the solution to rear end collisions. That is not likely to happen any time soon as 'people, aka drivers' vote, AUTOMOBILES don't!

 

[tannguyen]

Some Citroens, in an emergency stop, when the ABS is applied, the hazards come on automatically.

 

[somejeffguy]

evelrod,

motorcycle safety foundation. the flashing headlights are referred to as 'modulated' headlights. they are legal in all 50 states, so long as the modulation system has a provision for automatically disabling the flashing when ambient light drops below a certain level (e.g. dawn/dusk, night), and modulation rate does not exceed a certain value (3-4hz, perhaps). that last requirement is there so that the flashing does not induce seizures in epileptics.

i'd like to think that if modulated headlights really improved safety, the manufacturers would be offering them as standard equipment - or at least as an option - on all of their production bikes. i don't think cost is an issue, as aftermarket modulators aren't too expensive and mass production would surely bring costs down even further.

 

[evelrod]

I live in an area where all the weekend warriors ride and I thus see an abnormally high number of bikes on a daily basis. Since my last post I have seen several of the pulsing headlights. I doubt their value as, no doubt, they have been there all along and I just have not "seen" them until this thread brought it to my attention. If I didn't pay attention to them, picture old "average Joe/Jane". Most probably not an OEM option for that reason if no other.

Rod

 

[somejeffguy]

i've been riding for over 10 years here in new york city, and i have to admit i've only ever seen one or two bikes with headlight modulators. seems to me that if motorists have problems spotting big emergency vehicles armed with flashing and spinning lights and blaring sirens, a little motorcycle with a flashing headlight is hardly going to fare much better!

the real solution is, as you said, better driver education.

regarding the cupholder comment, did anybody happen to catch 'history of the autobahn' on the history channel a while back? one thing they mentioned that stood out in my mind was that the german car designers simply could not comprehend why americans wanted cupholders in their cars! it never occurred to them that anybody would want to do anything but devote their full attention to the task at hand - driving.

 

[rxtxau]

Here in Australia a third central High Level brake light is now used (several years now). It is supposed to have helped reduce accidents. There have been studies done that have shown that using LED brake lights instead of bulbs has quite an improvement on braking reaction time in an emergency.

The theories that I've seen all relate to the change in speed of light intensity being the important thing ie LED are almost instantly on where as a bulb more slowly changes due to the time taken for the filament to warm up. I've seen at least one study on the net but I'm sorry I don't know where.

I've just bought a new car and had a canopy fitted to it so I'm fitting a High Level Brake light very soon. Just got one.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

I don't have the link offhand, but the study was done by the DOT... if memory serves, reaction time was increased by nearly a quarter second when using LEDs, which at 65mph is a looooong distance.

My company (see link below) offers an LED kit meant more for the younger "ricer" crowd... you install a couple of thin LED modules to light up windscreens in convertibles or other pieces of glass/plastic with logos etched into them. They light up any color of the rainbow you choose, but turn red with the brakes, white with reverse, and amber with the turn signals.

I've even had officers ask me if the system was stock


Dan
Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[zeusfaber]

UK Law:

Provided that:

1. You've got traditional brake lights as well (because they're mandatory)

2. They're red (unless used for one of the purposes for which other colours are specifically authorised)

3. They don't flash (unless used for one of the purposes for which flashing lights are specifically authorised)

..... then you can pretty much do what you like.

Lawrie's right about us using hazard warning lights to warn of heavy braking. The practice became very common in the eighties, despite the fact that the law at the time explicitly prohibited use of hazard warning lights on moving vehicles. This was one of those happy cases where they changed the law to legitimise a sensible practice.

To look for detail:
Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 - particularly regulations 11, 13, 18 and 27.

http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19891796_en_1.htm#tcon

A.

 

[ruggedscot]

Hazard lights being used as a warning that something is out of the norm is quite regular here on the the UK road network. You can see it if traffic is slowing down for roadworks or if something is on the road and it requires attention drawn to it.

Tend to see more professional drivers doing it - truckers and the like or reps - people who spend a lot of time on the road. Its a life saver and gets your attention up and you know long before you would have picked up that heavy traffic has slowed right down.

Also now seeing quite a few people getting p....d off with those sad individuals that rush past on the outside lane only to try and come back in at the last minute when the road narrows through road works - we get ample warning 800 600 400 and 200 yards usually and you always see individuals flying past, now Im seeing a lot more cars and trucks pull out and run parallel to a vehicle to stop it from happening and you know the line up seems to get through faster as the cretins are stopped from jamming up the line with inconsiderate merging.

Rugged

 

[evelrod]

Yes, I'll agree, cretins they most assuredly are.

This thread has been around a couple years and in the intervening time I have seen a distinct increase in the use of emergency flashers as a warning to following traffic.
Still illegal in the US---Still seems like a good move to me as long as the same considerate drivers that do so don't turn into cretins and leave them on!

Rod

 

[jakedh]

My two cents:
A few years ago I *legally* modified my tail lights so that when applying my brakes the turn signals would illuminate as well. Additionally the turn signals use combine with the left or right brake light for more visibility. When braking the turning side assumes regular operation.
I didn't do this because I was terribly concerned but a few bucks on three relays wasn't going to hurt anything.
Second, modern firetrucks already do what most of you are talking about.

 

[jons999]

I have seen buses here in the US, mostly in big cities, that have orange lights that illuminate under deceleration, standard red brake lights that come on during braking and flashing red lights for heavy braking.

-Jon

 

[Retracnic]

I, like many of you, have often thought that some sort of signaling device should be employed during emergency or panic braking situations.

Specifically I think the signal should be triggered by a combination of depressing the brake pedal and the rate of deceleration as indicated by an accelerometer. Experimentation would yield what the ideal threshold should be before triggering the emergency signal.

Whatever is used, the threshold should be set very high in my opinion. High enough to where the average daily commuter can go weeks without seeing an emergency stop. The reason being is that if the new emergency braking system is seen on a daily basis... it’ll be ignored like everything else.

Regards,
Bryan Carter