EN 13480 Piping Materials

[denniskb]

I am working in Australia to design a mining processing plant to be built in eastern Europe with piping to EN 13480 and need some guidance as below;

1. What pipe/tube ODs are most commonly used and readily available for this work in Europe?

2. What pipe/tube wall thicknesses are most commonly used and readily available for this work in Europe?

3. What EN dimensional standrd are these in accordance with?

4. Are ASME B36.10 and B36.19 pipes commonly used and cost effective?

5. I can see that some of the ASTM materials have been "normalised" (Who made up that word?) but just how many have been done?

6. Is the normalising documentation available to allow use of the ASTM materials?

7. Which standard is to be used for the butt weld fittings as several of the EN 10253 standards are still in draft?

8. Some material standards such as EN 10208 do not appear in EN 13480 so can this material be used?

My main experience is with ASME B31.3 design and all our standard details suit the ASME B36.10 and B36.19 pipes, hence my series of questions.

I have numbered the questions in the hope that various people may have one or more answers and would appreciate any assistance provided.

TKS
Dennis

Dennis Kirk Engineering

http://www.ozemail.com.au/~denniskb

 

[BigInch]

"Normalisation", note the "s", is an EU Commission word, designed to standardise and replace all prior individual EU country codes.

Pipe dimensions are pretty much the metric equivalent of the typical inch diameters and common schedule dimensions, and can be used interchangably without creating any problem that I've ever heard of, but if you search for metric pipe dimensional standards, you'll get the exact measurements.

I don't know about the material details.

BigInch-born in the trenches.

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

 

[azertyuiop]

SOME ANSWERS BELOW IN CAPITAL LETTERS.

I am working in Australia to design a mining processing plant to be built in eastern Europe with piping to EN 13480 and need some guidance as below;

1. What pipe/tube ODs are most commonly used and readily available for this work in Europe?
US BASED O.D. IN INCH FORMAT AND STANDARD SCHEDULE SIZES ARE COMMON ALL OVER WESTERN EUROPE, AND OTHERWISE IF NOT INCH PIPE BEING USED, THEN FALL BACK ON DIN FORMAT, DIN= GERMAN PIPE CODE LIKE DN10->DN1000 , DN MEANING "NOMINAL DIAMETER".

2. What pipe/tube wall thicknesses are most commonly used and readily available for this work in Europe?
SCHEDULE 10, 20 AND 40 ARE USUALLY IN STORAGE.

3. What EN dimensional standrd are these in accordance with?
NOBODY CARES ABOUT THIS IN EUROPE, WE SIMPLY USE SCHEDULE SIZES.

4. Are ASME B36.10 and B36.19 pipes commonly used and cost effective? CERTAINLY, THEY ARE OFTEN 20% CHEAPER SINCE BEING MANUFACTURED IN FAR GREATER QUANTITY THAN PURE EU AREA PIPING DIAMETERS

5. I can see that some of the ASTM materials have been "normalised" (Who made up that word?) but just how many have been done?

6. Is the normalising documentation available to allow use of the ASTM materials?

7. Which standard is to be used for the butt weld fittings as several of the EN 10253 standards are still in draft?
USE "EN1092-1", THIS ONE REPLACE ALL OTHER NATIONAL FLANGE NORMS FOR PRESSURES UP TO 250BAR. CAN BE BOUGHT ON THE EU WEBSITE, OR DOWNLOADED PARTIALLY ON THE US WEBSITE MDMETRICS

8. Some material standards such as EN 10208 do not appear in EN 13480 so can this material be used? DON'T FOCUS TOO MUCH ON EU STANDARDS, BE SMARTER BY LOOKING ON THE INTERNET FOR A LOCAL EU PIPE SUPPLIER, AND LOOK WHAT HE PROPOSES IN HIS INVENTORY, WILL GIVE YOU PRETTY QUICK IDEA ON HOW TO TACKLE YOUR ISSUES. ASK FOR A PDF FILE CATALOGUE OF HIS TO BE SOLD PIPING MATERIALS AND USE IT IN YOUR SPECS

My main experience is with ASME B31.3 design and all our standard details suit the ASME B36.10 and B36.19 pipes, hence my series of questions.
ASME GETS USED IN EUROPE, BUT GERMAN CODE IN EASTERN EUROPE IS FAR MORE WIDESPREAD, AND WORTH FOCUSING ON SINCE FAR CHEAPER THAN ASME, DUE TO THINNER REQUIRED WALL THICKNESS AND THUS CHEAPER PIPING EXPENSES OVERALL.

I have numbered the questions in the hope that various people may have one or more answers and would appreciate any assistance provided.

 

[denniskb]

OK azertyuiop so now you are scaring me!! Is it possible you are working in oil & gas projects where the ASME and ASTM materials are heavily ingrained while I am working in mining?

If not then why do the EN standards exist?

Bulgaria has adopted the PED and EN 13480 so this should make compliance with these standards mandatory in Bulgaria and the many other European countries that have adopted EN?

Yes, I am aware that there is a large degree of match in the dimensions of EN and ASME pipe but some ASME sizes (22", 26", 30", 34") are not in the prefered sizes of EN.

Butt welding fittings remains an issue as EN 10253-1 Cl 1.1 says they dont conform to the PED and the conforming materials are in EN 10253-2 (and EN 10253-4?) which has not yet been issued. Can anyone advise which standard was used as the basis of EN 10253-2 so I can then use these fittings?

Screwed small bore fittings are aslo an issue as I have located only EN 10241 which does not provide any pressure ratings so cannot be used in EN 13480. Any suggestions here would be appreciated?

I have been trying for weeks to identify eastern European suppliers who can tell me what they sell and stock but the usual answer (when I can get one) is they will supply whatever it is that we want - not much help!

The problem with using ASTM materials in the EN calculations is that you need elevated temperature yield and ultimate stress values which I have been unable to locate.

It does appear that EN 14692-3 Cl 5.2.5.2 might allow for ASME pipe to be used despite the elevated temperature properties not being available, though with a heavy penalty in added wall thickness. Is anyone able to confirm that this clause can be used for this purpose?

My thanks to BigInch and azertyuiop for your assistance to date.





Dennis Kirk Engineering

http://www.ozemail.com.au/~denniskb