EN13445

[Vitd]

Hallo,

I want to know whether the weld as shown on the attachment is allowable acc. EN13445.

If yes how to confirm it with the norm.
Where can find it in the EN13445 code.

Could any help me here?

Thanking you

 

[r6155]

@ Vikko
I think you are confused with butt weld and full penetration.

In EN 13445-3 see Table 17-1 butt weld detail FE2 and FE3, then see Table 17-4 butt weld Details 1.1 to 1.3 ; 1.5 and 1.6

See ASME VIII DIV. 1 Figure UW-13.2 Corner Joint, and Figure UW-13.3 BUTT WELD


See AWS A3.0 2020 Standard Welding Terms
Butt Joint. A joint type formed by butting ends of one or more workpieces aligned in approximately the same plane.
Butt wells. A nonstandard terms for a weld in a butt joint

Weld showed by (OP) is a CORNER JOINT

Regards

 

[Vikko]

@r6155 in Table 17-4 butt weld Details 1.1 to 1.3 ; 1.5 and 1.6, it is a classical BW with pipe to pipe joint. Now think that the pipe on the left side is not hollow, but it is a full cylinder instead, and you have the exact same drawing of the first poster. Which is attaching at tubesheet to the shell. I understand what you say, it is a full penetration welding and it is not a pipe to pipe joint, but for some welding standards it is called a butt weld BW (in AWS they call it groove weld GW instead) to differentiate it from fillet weld FW.

In figure ASME VIII DIV. 1 Figure UW-13.2 the first poster drawing correspond to (c) or (d) and it is a typical way to attach the tubesheet to the shell welding from external side only.

The general nomenclature of welding in regards to EN 13445 is in EN 1445-5 figure 6.6.2-3 "type of weld" and table 6.6.2-1 at column "type of weld". What is asking for the first poster is in regard to rows 9, 10, 11 "Assembly of a flat head or a tubesheet, with a cylindrical shell".

Look at ISO 9692-1 (Welding and allied processes — Types of joint preparation) they divide all type of welding ends in 2 main types BW or FW. The same goes with ISO 9606-1 and many other related standards which are then more important for qualifiaction of WPS.

 

[r6155]

@ Vikko
The big difference is that ASME define "butt joint : a joint between two members aligned approximately in the same plane" which not coincide with BS-EN
T-joint with full penetration is considered "butt joint" in BS-EN.
I have BS EN 764-1:2015 Pressure Equipment - Vocabulary. No definition of butt joint is mentioned.
Please, have you any definition in BS-EN?

 

[Vikko]

I think butt joint and butt weld are sometimes used interchangebly but that generate confusion.

Regarding the type of joint (which is a simpler concept which in theory does not even involve welding) there are different opinions among different standards.
ASME and AWS define joint in the simplest way, with few types, mainly in regard to plate-to-plate welding. You can find the definition of joints in ASME VIII Div.1 Apx 3, there are 3 types only: angle/corner/butt and is only related to the angle between 2 plates welded together. In AWS A2.4 Anx A which is exactly the same of AWS 3.0 fig B.1 you can find 5 only the type of joints: Butt/Corner/T/Lap/Edge. For ISO 17659 Figure 1 the type of joints are 11. In the ISO vocabulary 25901-1 there are even more.


The type of weld is more related to the bevel endings (ISO 2553:2013 use this word definition of "butt" in the column of "weld type" in tab 5). If you check the ASME BPVC IX, they define the weld of pipe-to-plate with both Fillet Weld or Groove Weld. While in ISO 15614 (WPS qualification) they talk of the same thing but with full penetration instead of groove weld definition. The problem is that full penetration does not require grooving or chamfering the ends of the parts to be welded together. So the concepts "Groove Weld" and "Full Penetration" are not the same: you can have full penetration even without chamfering, if the thickness is small. In ISO 9606 (welder qualification) they talk of butt weld in pipe-to-pipe, and here the term "butt weld" is used exactly with the same meaning as the "groove weld" in ASME BPVC IX and AWS.

In any case for what it concern to EN 13445, that is defined in EN 1445-5 figure 6.6.2-3 "type of weld" and table 6.6.2-1 at column "type of weld", where they are defined 24 rows, each corresponding to different type of weld, joint and parts welded together.

https://files.engineering.com/getfi...e3f6ff414&file=ISO_17659_-_type_of_joints.png

 

[Vitd]

Hallo,


I have another Problem

WRC107- Calultion of Clips

i dont have any PVELITE,
How to go abt it.
If anyone have an Excel Sheet for this please share it with me.
Please see attachment
Thank You

 

[r6155]

I think definition (in words, not drawings) of butt joint / butt weld as mentioned in ASME is not in BS EN. But I keep searching.

Regards

 

[XL83NL]

I have another Problem

WRC107- Calultion of Clips

Please don’t double post. You have created another new thread for this already. New topics should not be added to current discussion threads.

Huub
- You never get what you expect, you only get what you inspect.

 

[Vitd]

Ok

 

[Vikko]

@r6155

You can find the definition in words in the vocabulary.

For ISO 25901-1
- (2007 2.55, 2016 2.1.6.3) butt weld (groove weld): weld other than a fillet weld (2.131) made in a groove or in a square preparation
- (2007 2.54, 2016 2.1.4.5) butt joint : type of joint where the parts lie in the same plane and against one another at an angle of 135° to 180°

 

[r6155]

@ Vikko
Thank you !
Now I have ISO 25901 part 1, 3 and 4.

Thank you again.
Regards