A guy try to sell me an energy saving device which work by cleaning or rather filtering out all the electrical noise and harmonics. He claims that the device can save electrical bill by 8% to 20% depending on the existing power quality and improve the life of the electrical installation equipment. Anybody have experienced with this sort of device and if they really perform as what he claim?
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Energy Saving Device
- Thread starter nicole10g
- Start date
Classic snake-oil.
Also do you see a line on your power bill that's a charge on harmonics?
Keith Cress
kcress -
Also do you see a line on your power bill that's a charge on harmonics?
Keith Cress
kcress -
Skogsgurra
Electrical
This guy probably read Bob Pease's classical column on pranks and fraudelent behaviour:
I am proud to be mentioned together with guys like Bob Dobkin and the origins of the C language.
My idea was to put a couple of coils inside a box. The coils should filter out any nuclear residues in the electric power. Two coils are absolutely necessary because nuclear residues use Line and Neutral to get into your house.
I was planning to get filthy rich on this. And then I became greedy. Why not make each filter a constant source of richness? So I added an electrolytic hour indicator - one of those thermometer -like devices that you don't see these days - with a scale going from green, via yellow into red. The device should be cent to the recycling center (my kitchen table) where I would turn the meter so it stared on green again, send it back together with an invoice.
Plans, plans. Still not rich. Filthier, yes. But not rich.
Gunnar Englund
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
I am proud to be mentioned together with guys like Bob Dobkin and the origins of the C language.
My idea was to put a couple of coils inside a box. The coils should filter out any nuclear residues in the electric power. Two coils are absolutely necessary because nuclear residues use Line and Neutral to get into your house.
I was planning to get filthy rich on this. And then I became greedy. Why not make each filter a constant source of richness? So I added an electrolytic hour indicator - one of those thermometer -like devices that you don't see these days - with a scale going from green, via yellow into red. The device should be cent to the recycling center (my kitchen table) where I would turn the meter so it stared on green again, send it back together with an invoice.
Plans, plans. Still not rich. Filthier, yes. But not rich.
Gunnar Englund
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
Totally, absolutely, completely, and undeniably bogus.
The US DOE and Energy Star both have prohibitions against calling transient surge suppression and capacitor devices "energy saving."
If you happen to be in California, send an e-mail to their consumer product safety commission. They'll make the company stop it.
Exception: any product marketed by Gunnar.
Best to you,
Goober Dave
Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies
The US DOE and Energy Star both have prohibitions against calling transient surge suppression and capacitor devices "energy saving."
If you happen to be in California, send an e-mail to their consumer product safety commission. They'll make the company stop it.
Exception: any product marketed by Gunnar.
Best to you,
Goober Dave
Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies
NIST did an in depth study of these snake oil boxes, here is a good report on them and why they don't work for a residential customer.
Complete and utter scam. Surge / spike protection has some benefits for sensitive devices, but has nothing to offer for energy savings.
The one I like lately is the one that claims to use infrared wavelength emissions to reduce the excess spin of the electrons as they move through a conductor!
"Dear future generations: Please accept our apologies. We were rolling drunk on petroleum."
— Kilgore Trout (via Kurt Vonnegut)
For the best use of Eng-Tips, please click here -> faq731-376
The one I like lately is the one that claims to use infrared wavelength emissions to reduce the excess spin of the electrons as they move through a conductor!
"Dear future generations: Please accept our apologies. We were rolling drunk on petroleum."
— Kilgore Trout (via Kurt Vonnegut)
For the best use of Eng-Tips, please click here -> faq731-376
- Thread starter
- #7
I also think that all these are scam.
However, there is another guy trying to sell this energy saving device which work only on discharge lamp. What he claimed is that the normal discharge lamp only need the full voltage of 230Vac at starting. After the fluorescent lamps are lighted up for 15 minutes, his device will reduce the input voltage to the lamp down to about 190Vac. So the saving will be on the different in voltage and the saving can be in 15%.
However, the device can only be used solely discharge lamp. Any other type of lamps or equipment in the circuits will make the device cannot work because of the reduced voltages. And because of that restrains, we did not try his product.
However, there is another guy trying to sell this energy saving device which work only on discharge lamp. What he claimed is that the normal discharge lamp only need the full voltage of 230Vac at starting. After the fluorescent lamps are lighted up for 15 minutes, his device will reduce the input voltage to the lamp down to about 190Vac. So the saving will be on the different in voltage and the saving can be in 15%.
However, the device can only be used solely discharge lamp. Any other type of lamps or equipment in the circuits will make the device cannot work because of the reduced voltages. And because of that restrains, we did not try his product.
Skogsgurra
Electrical
That is true. I did some measurements to "pull their trausers down" and found that their claims are mostly exaggerated. Light output is NOT voltage independent. BUT, there's a sweet spot near 190 V (for a 230 V fuxture) where efficiency is at its peak.
A device that adjusts voltage down to that operating point will surely save like 30 % energy. But with reduced light output, which can often be tolerated.
The method only works with flourescent fixtures and only with those that has a magnetic ballast. Modern ones do not have the same lumen/volt dependence.
Read about it here:
Gunnar Englund
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
A device that adjusts voltage down to that operating point will surely save like 30 % energy. But with reduced light output, which can often be tolerated.
The method only works with flourescent fixtures and only with those that has a magnetic ballast. Modern ones do not have the same lumen/volt dependence.
Read about it here:
Gunnar Englund
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
- Thread starter
- #9
Skogsgurra
Electrical
The answer is NO. You cannot.
Unless the harmonics level is extreme. Which it never is.
For many reasons.
Gunnar Englund
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
Unless the harmonics level is extreme. Which it never is.
For many reasons.
Gunnar Englund
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
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