eng-tips promoting laziness? 6

[nickelkid]

I can't be the only on who has these thoughts. Do people own and/or read/study handbooks anymore? Why is it that individuals want (or need) to be spoon feed? Etc…

I realize: that mentoring on the job is not what it once was, immediate gratification is an epidemic in the world today, and eng-tips helps me (I am very glad it exists and is active).

With that said, are eng-tips promoting (contributing to) laziness?

NB My underlying objective of this thread is to improve myself when dealing with others when I rightly or wrongly perceive laziness or lack of qualifications. I know I am not alone.

Thank you.

 

[moltenmetal]

A star to patprimmer for that lovely little quote! Efficiency is applied laziness!

I'd argue that the truly lazy ones read only the handbooks and make decisions on that basis alone! No consultation with colleagues, or looking for information in more depth when needed.

The good ones read the handbooks, talk with their own colleagues and THEN come here to see what a broader range of experienced engineers have to say about it.

You've got to realize that many engineers work in small offices where the pool of colleagues is pretty limited. Eng-Tips can take that pool and turn it into an ocean- which is great if you know how to swim, and dangerous if you don't...!

The ones asking the hopelessly unqualified questions should, and do, get the electronic back of the hand.

I've answered a few questions that I probably shouldn't have, but it's often because I was worried about the person in question getting in over their head and hurting somebody.

I've asked plenty of dumb questions to electrical and mechanical engineers over the years about stuff no chem eng should properly be expected to know, and they've been both helpful and respectful. So when an electrical asks a chem eng question, I'm happy to (try to) help.

 

[Sideswiper]

I unapolgetically admit that I like direct answers to direct questions.

A lot of engineers think alike but we don't all necessarily learn the same way. Often in school I found other engineers would struggle with the theory and that the problem solving came naturally. I usually understand the theory and its implications pretty quickly but I have to put the most effort into seeing how the theory is applied through calculations.

Maybe I should be a scientist or a manager, but that aside, I really love complete examples and direct answers to questions, especially when I'm trying to learn something. Now a mentor or a professor can string me along and let me struggle occasionally to help me learn, but I think it goes better after I've had some examples to study and figure out just so I'm in the right mindset. But from an internet forum or a textbook, I'd like more direct help.

Especially textbooks. Some of them are horrible references since almost all the content is "left as an exercise for the student".

I believe that an engineer that likes to study examples isn't necessarily lazy and can reach the same level of understanding as any other engineer who learns through any other method.

 

[btrueblood]

"A star to patprimmer for that lovely little quote! Efficiency is applied laziness!"

Agree with that molten, and I voted him a second star.

"I'd argue that the truly lazy ones read only the handbooks and make decisions on that basis alone! No consultation with colleagues, or looking for information in more depth when needed. "

Nope, that guy is a lazy-wannabe. Truly lazy efficient engineers check any/all sources to find if somebody has already solved the problem before resorting to doing their own research/calculation/experiment, or, worse building it anyway, only to fight with endless problems in construction/assembly/production of the building/device/process.

More importantly, one should never consider any single source as gospel, whether handbook, research paper, consultation with an "expert", or random quip from sarcastic eng-tips posters.

 

[Unotec]

I appreciate the lazy questions now and then. They prompt a few of the guys and gals around here to give some pretty funny and sarcastic answers. These are my 'Dilbert' comic of the day.
After these replies the poster usually either retracts or corrects itself.

<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying ” Damn that was fun!” - Unknown>>

 

[drawoh]

RCHandy,

I can't be the only on who has these thoughts. Do people own and/or read/study handbooks anymore? Why is it that individuals want (or need) to be spoon feed? Etc...

Tell them to RTFM! This is exactly why the expression is popular.

Telling people like this what handbook to read is good practise. I have a couple books on my shelf now because somone on Eng-Tips told me to read them. The textbooks, handbooks and manuals contain way more information than you can provide in a response. When you or I respond to the OP, we really do not know what the problem is. The OP can read the books the context of the original design issue.

When the OP appears to be in over their head, an excellent response is to tell them what section of their mechanics of materials or machine design textbook to read. This is way more tactful than flaming them, especially important if it turns out they are qualified. If they do not have mechanics of materials or machine design textbooks, you have done nothing to provide them a warm, fuzzy feeling of confidence they should not have.

JHG

 

[EngineerofSteel]

I was told years ago that the best engineers are very familiar with failures in engineering.

I come to eng-tips and just read through some threads. Many engineers mention failures in their responses. In this way, my "engineering judgment" is increased. My practical knowledge of what to check in my designs is also improved.

eng-tips has been an efficiency tool for me. I have posted all my questions after reading references and still not getting it... Then I turn to the engineering community.

This question about laziness surprised me.

Thanks, eng-tips. Thanks fellows.

 

[KENAT]

Laziness is posting a question here without even trying to do a google search and/or search of this site, let alone getting/reading a manual or other text.

I probably shouldn't get on my soap box as I think a couple times I may have been guilty but even if not explicit laziness it's sure as heck not spending enough time thinking about it to not inconvenience others.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[monkeydog]

YES!
Eng-Tips does promote laziness.
Here it is the middle of the afternoon, I should be working on a specification, but instead I am surfing Eng-Tips because if the boss walks up, it looks like work.

 

[aardvarkdw]

I agree with KENAT. Lazy is not taking the time to run a search in the same forum you are posting your question that you should know the answer to already. Sometimes I will post a question that I already have an opinion about just so that I can get someone else's opinion. I would not however ask a question and expect those older and wiser heads on this site to do my job for me.

Sometimes you just don't have access to resources(manuals, textbooks, etc...)that you know others have.

David

 

[jmw]

I wonder.
The ostensible purpose of the fora is to enable engineers to obtain help from other engineers.
However, I am sure many (I hesitate to presume most)engineers find more satisfaction in being the supplier of wisdom rather than being the recipient.
That being so the only laziness that offends is that which does not challenge or surprise, even the taboo students get away with it if they ask interesting enough questions.
Eng-tips may or may not encourage laziness in others but for most of us (I'm more sure of this)it has greater compensating values. We only get upset at laziness when it fails to stimulate us, whether the questioner is lazy or not is their problem and if they don't too obviously make it ours, we tolerate it.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[ctopher]

Sorry for taking sooo long to respond...I just sold my bike and treadmill.

Eng-Tips not for lazi, I learnded a lot hear.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

 

[GregLocock]

jmw - I dispute your supplier of wisdom thing, isn't it more that a deep, wide ranging, technical discussion is the real drug on offer here?

Then we can go and smugly dispense illicitly gained wisdom elsewhere.




Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[MadMango]

I quote you all equally well on a daily basis.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of these Forums?

 

[B16A2]

I don't think it promotes laziness, but I do think it's a dangerous tool because many people can post confident sounding posts, when in reality they're posting what they "think" is correct. From what I can tell, the majority of posters on here are young...many fresh out of school... not experienced icons of the industry. Like many internet resources, it's difficult to quantify the legitimacy of the information.

I think Eng-Tips could become a great tool to unify engineers since many engineering organizations fail to do so.....mainly due to exorbitant member fees...ASCE to name one.

 

[patprimmer]

I find that even answering the questions of others helps me learn as I do need to do some thinking and some research to formulate the answer.

Also several misconceptions I have held were very abruptly rectified when I stated them here.

Then of course there are the huge number of ideas you see from others in the threads you follow. This can be new to you, they can change your current thinking or they can reinforce your current thinking as the case may be.

Re the comments on sources, in the areas I visit the sources are often personal experience, judgement calls and creative thinking and reasoning. You just can't find a lot of that in books. sometimes you already knew it but needed confirmation.

If that is slacking, I guess I'm a slacko



Regards

eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[jmw]

Greg,
I think you've got it right!

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[zdas04]

B16A2,
I don't think you have that one quite right. I've rarely seen a "wrong" post go unchallenged. In fact, I've often seen a thread dragged into minutia with poster after poster taking me to task for some stupid statement I've made. The Peer Review here is immediate, on point, and often brutal--unlike most official Peer-Reviewed venues I've participated in.

David

 

[owg]

B16A2 - I read the daily paper on line. Critical review of the editorials is also immediate, on point, and brutal, unlike that of the paper edition.

HAZOP at

http://www.curryhydrocarbons.ca

 

[Ussuri]

I do think it's a dangerous tool

I must disagree with the statement that eng-tips is dangerous. It is a source of information, in the same way as asking a colleague or reading a paper/textbook is. As a Professional Engineer you must be able to justify/verify the information you receive. In my opinion accepting blindly and not doing so IS dangerous. Just because the information was obtained here is neither here nor there. Other sources can also provide duff info.

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

Any 'tool' is potentially dangerous in the wrong hands. Even the simplest of items can kill or inflict serious injury if misused.

Knowledge is empowering, and power can be abused. Information obtained from any medium, has the potential to be dangerous if misused.