Eng-Tips Salary Survey 10

[CivilSigma]

Hi Everyone,

I am four years into my career as a structural engineer, and to be frank I am un happy with my salary.
I currently make $70 000 CAD working for one of the "big" consulting companies. I am an EIT, and expect my P.Eng by the end of summer.
My peers working in the public sector easily get paid $80k+ and get great benefits while more or less making the same spreadsheets as me.

May I ask the users here for their input on their salary, type of work (consulting vs. management), general location and years of experience?
I really enjoy structural engineering, and I just want to know what I will realistically make as I progress in my career.

Sincerely,
CS

Edit: I am in Ontario, Canada.

 

[kos1]

i was making same when i was at your level of experience in Alberta.

 

[Aesur]

we are structural engineers, always underpaid, and always overworked, making other rich usually.

My opinion is because engineering is a commodity and we are in a race to the bottom which is why our field no longer attracts top talent with the exception of the few who enjoy what they are doing. Our fees can only support so much salary without putting in more hours, when you are designing a 10,000 sqft commercial building for a 4k fee, good luck making profit when 90% of the time the architect has something custom on it they didn't tell you about when pricing it and unfortunately engineers are shopped against each other because owners want the cheapest fee and don't care about the quality most of the time because they can always sue the engineer if something happens. Because design events are so rare which means failures are rare we have competitors constantly undercutting us and under designing IMO.

 

[JStructsteel]

Aesur,
I get it, when you are facing not having money to pay bills, you undercut, or bid low.

Its hard not to do that, but sometimes you have to stick to your guns. For example, I bid a house, design and drafting (custom house) and the architect went the route of doing what they could themselves, farming out framing to the truss and lumber yards, etc. They came back at me wanting me to stamp the framing plan from the lumber yard. I sent a proposal for just that, almost 30% more than the original quote. So the message was sent that its more for less since you tried to cut me out. Granted, I wont get that work.

 

[Aesur]

JStructsteel - I 100% support what you did there and have done similar. I hate when I get the question of "if we draw it for you, can you cut your fee in half" - the answer is no, it now takes me longer to redline architectural drawings/details and backcheck a person who knows little about structural and in fact usually takes more time. I have a proposal out on a custom house right now that will literally take 4 weeks or engineering time and 2 weeks of drafting time and the project is priced according to time it will take which is expensive; I don't plan on budging in the fee and won't be upset if someone else undercuts it and books themselves up for the next month. The project has lots custom/proprietary building materials and no wood allowed, not even sheathing for shear walls or diaphragms, I suspect they won't want steel deck either although I proposed steel deck or rod bracing.

 

[eng-erik]

The location makes a HUGE difference - even within the US. Compare the average salary in California vs Kansas - almost a factor of 2!

source:

https://tribby3d.com/blog/structural-engineer-salary/

 

[Dinga17]

Just for your interest that salary is comparable to salaries in Australia. 2-4 years graduated and in the engineering profession you can expect 70-80k Aus Dollar a year. So roughly comparable to what you're on

 

[XR250]

Our fees can only support so much salary without putting in more hours, when you are designing a 10,000 sqft commercial building for a 4k fee

That is ridiculous. Where do you practice?

 

[Aesur]

@XR250 - Southwest US. I agree 100% that fee is ridiculous, it essentially buys you maybe 30 hours split between a drafter and engineer; this is why we are pushing into other markets and focusing on larger projects with these little ones being filler and for client relations. Locally, the issue is the number of one man shops, there are four to five firms (most less than 10 employees) and probably 10 to 15 one man shops and the developers push very hard to bring those fees down by shopping everyone against each other. When I first started engineering in this area, fees were approximately 0.50 cents/sqft for most commercial, I have been seeing that fee drop more and more to the point of between 0.25 and 0.35 (one man shop rates). Many of those projects I let others take on to fill their calendar so we can focus on the better work.

I have been trying to push the fees back up and seeing some success with certain clients, but not all. Part of our job, that engineers hate, is dealing with finances and communicating (justifying) to the client how fees were derived (based on hours spent on a project or liability based on project size, etc.), because only then will they truly understand why we price things as we do.

I had one architect push for us to design a complex 3 story custom house around 5000 sq-ft for $2500 including CA because his other engineer charges that, but couldn't get to it for a few months (our fee came in around $15k design based on time it would take); he wanted us because we provide better quality (his words); obviously for us it was no-brainer, we walked (ran) away and haven't provided a proposal to that architect since.

 

[JLNJ]

Rather than emphasize your time served with your employer, you should detail to them what it is you can do. The more talent you have and the more things of value you produce, the more likely they are to pay you more. Passing the EIT or the P.Eng isn't particularly difficult or meaningful in and of itself. Prove how you add value.

Too often we pay for service time rather than talent.

 

[Enable]

- SNIP

I frequently question if my fees justify the personal liability I take for my designs. To date, I've figured they have(ish) for the kind of work I do. But in your case there really is no question that the fees are not commensurate with the liability. I know local market dynamics dictate what you can charge, and if this is your lifelong profession, it's hard to do anything but go along with it. But $4000 for a 10,000ft2 commercial space is horrific.

I hope it gets better for you. That sucks

 

[JD P.E.]

Currently work at a paper mill as a multi-discipline engineer. I am 2 years out of college making 95k base, 10k yearly bonus, and 3 weeks of vacation not including comp time. Low cost of living area and in the middle of nowhere.

Start reading textbooks. The more you know the more valuable you are.

 

[Aesur]

@Enable, Thanks - I am hoping the local fees start going up as well (older one man shops are finally starting to retire). Luckily for us, we mostly focus on large apartments and commercial, so these little projects are mostly filler/client relations.

 

[XR250]

with these little ones being filler and for client relations.

I don't get the client relation thing. "Do this job for nothing and we will give you a bigger job where you will make slightly more than nothing"? Does not sound like a client I want relations with.