Engineer versus Designer 16

[dextermech]

I'm 6 years out of college (BSME). During those 6 years, I was (and still am) titled a "Mechanical Engineer", but 99% of what I've done has been design work, NOT full blown engineering with lots of calculations, FEA, that sort of stuff. My worry is that if I change jobs, I will have nowhere near the skills and knowledge necessary to be hired as a "real" engineer. Certainly I am not the first person to have this happen to them. Any advice to give? Thanks! Very worried...

 

[GregLocock]

"I am quite curious why some guys think FEA is only small subset of the engineering? "

Well, it's a bit like the final Calvin and Hobbes strip.

http://www-cgi.cnn.com/US/9512/calvin/calvin_hobbes.jpg

The world is big and magical. Seen through a CRT it may look like FEA matters more than most things, and to be fair FEA is a significant part of current engineering, but is by no means dominant, or even especially cutting-edge these days. Where I work there are several hundred engineers, doing what I would call engineering. 30 are doing FEA. Maybe another 10 or 20 are generating the correlation data that the FEA guys need. perhaps another 30 or 40 rely directly on the FEA results - but if FEA vanished, those jobs would not, we'd just go back to hand calcs, a la Bruhn, and more rig tests, and other difficult, expensive, fun things.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[IRstuff]

And, of course, there's nothing to FEA without a baseline design. Moreover, If you can't scrape together a decent design to start with and understand why your design is decent, you're going to FEA'ing until the cows come home trying to tweak a suboptimum design.

TTFN

 

[UNLengineer]

I am not a mechanical engineer and can not relate to FEA, although in my field, doing calculations is only a small part of "real" engineering.

I agree with IRstuff, being able to do calculations is worthless if you don't understand the theory enough to rough out a good design to start with.

 

[HVACctrl]

Also, you have to have a feel for if the software spit out an illogical number. It can happen if the input data is off, if the assumptions in the software aren't set up correctly, etc....

Sure, people uneducated in the background can run the software, but it can be dangerous. Errors can be missed and things can fail.

Ed

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[wes616]

I am not a mechanical engineer and can not relate to FEA, although in my field, doing calculations is only a small part of "real" engineering.

I am a mechanical engineer, and I do not understand the naivete of someone who believes:

The real mechanical engineering things should be

1) Analyzes engineering designs, schematics, and customer specifications to determine; stresses, strains temperatures, deflections and pressure requirements and limits on products.

2) Performs non-linear finite element analyses on components and assemblies using contact elements and plasticity.

3) Analyzes ability of product to withstand stresses imposed by conditions such as temperature, loads, motion, and vibration.

4) Performs fracture mechanics analyses to determine failure of components from cyclic fatigue crack growth and defines critical defect sizes.

or asks

I am quite curious why some guys think FEA is only small subset of the engineering?

There are many many facets to mechanical engineering that you fail to mention and in doing so you show your lack of curiosity with the world around you.

Here is some advice for you. If you don't like your lot in life then CHANGE IT! Don't sit around and talk about how the world has dealt you a raw hand and expect me to feel sorry for you. As a matter of fact, I'll give you some advice that may push you down the road to a more fulfilling career. Take a course or two in English composition. Maybe it's not your "engineering" skills that are holding you back.

Wes C.
------------------------------
No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

 

[HVACctrl]

wes, touche'!

Maybe the person making those statements has been in the same type of role in the same industry and hasn't had the chance to see other aspects of engineering. I've been places where FEA was extremely important on a regular basis, but for most of my work its useless. These things vary between industry and job, but I have been around a few places.

I think the OP and others WANT to change their situation. Heck, I want to change mine. Maybe they're just not sure how.

BTW, how's your day going?

Ed

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[KENAT]

I worked in aerospace/defense in the UK for 5 years.

We had a dedicated Stress Engineer (they hired a second just before I left) who did 90%+ of all the stress analysis.

I remember him using FEA about twice! The rest was done by hand calcs usually verified by some testing if it was really critical. As well as the FEA he did for a couple of the larger jobs where it was justified we'd subcontract for some FEA analysis but it always seemed to take 10x as long as his hand calcs and I don't recall it ever finding something critical he had missed. It was usually a tick in the box in the contract or was done as verification of the hand calcs to avoid/minimize testing.

Now I'm not down playing FEA, it is a very useful and powerful tool but.... It is not the be all and end all of Mechanical engineering IMHO.

Maybe I'm the odd one out. I actually like the design aspect, coming up with neat mechanisms (or rather applying well proven ones in a clever way) or finding ways to fit things in while meeting time/financial constraints etc or even just creating ....

Maybe this is partly because I'm week on the analysis side although I have taken some steps to correct this. However, Design is the reason I wanted to become an engineer not analysis.

To me analysis is a tool for design not an end in itself.

 

[HVACctrl]

KENAT,
I'm right there with you. I feel the same way!

Ed

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[kchayfie]

I was diverted away from Mechanical Engineering to Chemical Engineering at a young age when I had very little idea of the difference. If you told me FEA was the be-all and end-all of Mech Eng I wouldn't have had to spend so much time deliberating over my decision!

I now work alongside Mechanical Engineers in the water industry designing and building clean and waste water plants. None of the mechanical engineers seems to spend any time on anything like FEA yet they seem to have productive and fulfilling jobs doing mechanical engineering. Surely that says something about it being a subset of engineering?!

 

[GrimesFrank]

I'm a hybrid (Mech/Chem) and I think my job as an engineer is to answer the questions there is not a pat cookbook answer for. Whether that involves FEA or not is immaterial.
One of my tasks for today is the process engineer needs to report to management. "How long will my pipe hangers last with the piping shaking like that?" they ask. I'm not picking parts from a catalogue, and I'm not pulling out my partial derivatives (yet) to solve this. Everything's not black & white.
If you think you are underutilized that doesn't necessarily mean its not engineering, just means you aren't happy. I have those tedious days too, ride them out and make a sober decision about your career.

 

[PhilBW]

From my experience, there are three basic types of design done by mechanical engineers:

1. Those who design parts.

2. Those who design machines using a bunch of parts.

3. Those who design systems using a bunch of machines.

There are also different basic types of engineering jobs. At one end of the spectrum are those where the engineer spends most of his time at a computer doing analysis. At the other end of the spectrum are those where the engineer hardley spends any time in the office. There are many types of jobs in between these two extremes.

Besides design, there are engineers in sales, administrative and production jobs.

None of the engineering jobs that fall into these different categories is more or less important than the others. All require a techinical background like engineers gain in college.

Dextermech, if you are interested in doing the calculations and analysis, now would be the time to find such a job while your career is still fairly young. However, if you like your job and are considering a change only because you think you should be doing those things (not because you have a burning desire to), I wouldn't be too concerned. There are many engineering jobs similar to the one you have where you would be considered an experienced engineer. With the equipment I design, there are about 4 types of calculations I do on a regular basis, and those have become very routine for me. We don't need anything as sophisticated as FEA. If I were hiring an engineer, I would hire someone with your experience over someone who had thousands of hours of detailed analytical calculation experience.

 

[HVACctrl]

Great answer PhilBW! Nail on the head- I don't care who designed the stinking nail!

Ed

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[EddyC]

PhilBW,

I also like your decription of Mechanical Engineering. I think your 3 types are the best decription I've heard yet.

 

[KENAT]

Phil,

Do you mean there are 3 types of mech eng or 3 types of design done by mech eng?

I certainly have done all 3 in my last job and at least the first 2 in this.

However good post.

Ken

 

[Akhibi]

Gents,

I hope this issue is not being over floged.

I left the university with a B.Eng in Mechanical Engineering, and a longing for those beautiful calculations and that feeling of just saving the world with one well taught out solution to the greatest engineering problem. That was 7yrs ago and now I remember those days and laugh at myself.

Check out my journey:
Year 1-2 - CAD Engineer, Construction Company

Year 2-4 - Planning Engineer, Consultancy Firm. The first year in consulting was spent developing procedures and work method statements for pipeline construction companies. I had to master industry codes and standards on my own. The rest was spent developing project management plans for huge pipeline construction projects.

Year5 - Project Engineer, Pipeline Construction Project

Year 5-Present - Management, am now an assisstant manager in the biggest construction company in Nigeria.

Sorry this was not meant as a resume, but to show dextermech the paths that engineering can take you through without being involved with long integration and differentiation.

Point of correct- I've not given up hope of solving the greatest engineering problem.

Greg Akhibi
Clearwaters Consulting Ltd

 

[johnsmith2]

Greg Akhibi,

What knowledge or skills that you think is important to your current position? What are the duties of Project Engineer? Any technique knowlege involved.

I think we don't expect much calculation in the engineering world. What skill is important?

 

[Akhibi]

Technical savvy (Not necessarily at the Master’s level, there are consultants with a better knowledge of the nitty-gritty)
Modern management skills
Business acumen
Good communication skills
Leadership qualities

As a project engineer, my job is to manage the project execution in-line with the approved plans and develop, analyze, and recommend alternative options as need arises.

Example: I developed a routine in Microsoft excel for buoyancy calculations during a river crossing operation. This is all basic fluid mechanics. We contract the job to a consultant for a more details analysis using FEA and other steady state analysis software, turned out we arrived at the same result. Of course our client will be more comfortable with the tons of paper from the consultant.

Bottom-line is that you are an engineer practicing engineering what ever the level you are playing at. If everybody in the engineering family is busy with calculations who will manage the finances, clients and other issues that arise in the normal course of engineering business?

Engineering is the most dynamic of all professions.
It is a privilege to be in this family.


Greg Akhibi
Clearwaters Consulting Ltd