Engineering Degree 8

[Theasy]

I started as a draftsman and worked my way up to managing a group of engineers and designers for multi million dollar projects. I have been in this business for 30 years in the office and in the field. The company I work for is very prestigious and pays me well. This, I am sure, is based upon my experience and proven track record over time.
I had an interview with an equally prestigious company. It was a management position very similar to what I am doing now (and have been for almost 7 years). The position did call for an engineering degree with 8+ years experience. I sent my resume in, which does state that I have credits towards a B.S. degree, but never alludes to anything further in that regard. I was telephoned screened by the engineering manager and asked to come in for a face to face. I flew to their location (at their expense) and was initially interviewed by H.R. who asked me why was I applying for the position without a degree???? This somewhat confounded me as I was screened and appeared to be a good match. My question to you is: What does a degree get you that 30 years of progressive experience and a proven track record of success does not??

 

[crossframe]

And some of those paper bags can be pretty tough!

 

[metengr]

As I see it, a candidate that posses both an engineering degree PLUS relevant job experience will always have a higher probability of landing a job in comparison to a candidate that does not posses a formal engineering degree. This is the reality of the situation folks.

Regarding the statement <<As for those who feel that no degree is an indication of academic porwess and ultimately a base to ensure "technical understanding", I say that is a load of B.S. as I am sure you can all point to the academic within your ranks that couldn't engineer thier way out of a paper bag!!!!>> This is a ridiculous statement. The professors in academic circles, if given the opportunity, could indeed engineer themselves out of most situations. Most consultants and engineering experts that you see or hear about in the news media come from academic institutions!!

I personally have no problem with any individual that has years of engineering experience, and wish the well as engineering associates or some other management title commensurate with pay (based on relevant experience). In my opinion, they are not qualified to be called Engineers.

My rationale is that the engineering degree implies a minimum level of educational competency. For those that believe engineering experience will compensate for the lack of a formal engineering education are fooling themselves. Sorry for the brutally honest opinion of the situation but that is life. You are never too old to go back and try for an engineering degree!

 

[ctopher]

IMO, Getting a degree just shows employees are somewhat capable of doing the job and are self motivated. If the position requires a BS, and the other employees have BS's, it is not fair to hire someone who has only experience.
I believe in hiring someone with more experience than a degree, but a degree bumps the pay.

 

[plasgears]

The best analogy of a non-graduate engineer managing graduate engineers is:

A practical nurse managing a staff of graduate MD's.

Silly, isn't it?

My worst esperience in the field was working in automotive with an engineering group top heavy in QC types with no solid engineering backgrounds. Some of the discussions were pitiful. I could write a book.

 

[NickelMet]

Interesting read...especially all the opinions.

In my career, I have had the privelege of working with or for many different types of managers, some were engineers and others weren't (by a longshot). What I take from that experience:

1. Engineers don't always make the best managers in certain situations, though they may have the knowledge that the job requires.
2. Non-engineers don't always make the best managers in knowledge-based or technology-related positions, though they may have the experience.
3. No matter the experience, no matter the degree, there is always an opportunity for the right person at the right time and the wrong person at the wrong time.

Now, before anyone gets too hot under the collar, let me state that those statements are in general, and from my experience. There are always exceptions to the rule (or to the example).

One of the best supervisors I ever had was not an engineer, though he managed an engineering group. In fact, he was not even a degreed individual. He had worked hard and learned all he did from the "school of hard knocks". When I worked for him, the state we were working in would not allow his company to use an "engineer" designation in his title. And one of my peers, a masters degree engineer, let him know quite often how his lack of an engineering degree made him inferior. However, in my opinion, 14 years later even, he was one of the best engineers I ever worked with. (Tale of the tape: today that manager is a Senior Manager in his company, the engineer is still an engineer with no hope of advancement.)

However, on the converse side of that, I've also worked with people who profess to be engineers and have that shingle on the wall proclaiming their expertise. But, their skills, their mindset, their activity, and their practical working knowledge is such they don't deserve the title nor the degree. (One in particular I think about had a pHD, which in his case meant "piled higher and deeper". Tale of the tape: he has been released from 5 jobs in 10 years due to his inabilities.)

Lastly, I think we all know of these situations where the personnel don't really fit the job. Or, where the job doesn't mesh with the people involved. Getting back to Theasy's question, my answer is this:

'Degrees and experience are intimately related. Experience teaches you how to best utilize your skills and affect and interact with those around you in a positive manner. A degree shows you have the commitment to enhance your experience and provides a modicum of professionality to your position. Experience gives you the ability to apply the knowledge a degree program will give you, even if it is simply finding information, solving a problem, or proving someone right. A degree will confer a sense of respect, responsibility, and credibility to your experience.'

In short, I agree with Metengr, experience plus a degree is the best combination (coupled with proven success). And, he is again right, you are never too old to go back to school. Harsh reality is a harsh world.

One more thing before I go (I know I'm long-winded). BEFORE I got my degree, I worked as an engineering aide/technician/intern and was told I did good work, but finish the degree. AFTER I got my degree, I had better job offers than my classmates because of my experience. BEFORE I got my PE licence, there were networks of peers and professionals that would not give me a second look. AFTER I got my PE licence, those networks and people opened up. BEFORE I gained my experience, I was always the grunt. AFTER I gained my experience, I still strive to gain more, though a REPUTATION now precedes me. PERCEPTION my friends is a most important ally in our continued endeavors.

My 2-cents...

~NiM

 

[GregLocock]

Um plasgears, that is not a bad way of running a ward, particularly if you phrase it as:

"the person who has the most experience in day to day running of the ward manages the activities of the ward and relies on their technical staff to perform the technical function in the ward"

9 times out of 10 I'd rather be looked after by a nurse with 20 years of experience than a freshly qualified doctor.


Cheers

Greg Locock