Engineering : employement and future

[FrenchCAD]

As GregLocock suggested in thread730-63385 I'd like to discuss the state of employement in engineering, as well as the evolution of the number of students taking engineering classes.

It seems that all over the world, things are sorta unequal considering those two facts. It looks like in Europe, we're facing a crisis of low employement as well as a reduction of students in engineering courses.

On the other hand, it seems that Australia and US are facing another problem.

Is the engineering world unbalanced? Will we have enough engineers in the future?

Cyril Guichard
Mechanical Engineer

 

[PSE]

Humanity is unbalanced geographically, socially, politically and economically. As a subset of that humanity, the engineering "world" likely follows suit. "Will we have enough engineers in the future?" It may be a case of whether or not we are willing to become the nomads of technology. If the jobs move away from our homes, are we willing to give them up to follow?

Regards,

 

[DJKeng]

It would be nice to hear from some engineers who have braved tough times before these.

I was looking at historical employment data for the US(

http://www.bls.gov/lau/home.htm)

and it looks like the early 80's were much more difficult times, as far as unemployment, than today.

Is the sky really falling or are we in some 20 year cycle?

 

[swertel]

I've noticed more of a 4 year cycle, but the large peaks and valleys may be more like 20 years. For example, I got into school when the graduates couldn't find any jobs. I debated long and hard about going into engineering. Thankfully, the market turned around 4 years later and I had no problems finding a job. But, since job placement for engineers is easy, all of a sudden a large influx of students go into engineering. 4 years later, no one can find a job because the recent grads flooded the market. Therefore, fewer students go into engineering because they worry about finding jobs after graduation. And the cycle repeats. In short, the demand remains constant, but the supply changes.

The demand for engineers is still high, but it is a different location than we are accustomed to looking. Things look especially grim because engineering jobs are in a transient location and we are at a peak of engineering graduates following the late 90's boom.

--Scott

For some pleasure reading, the Round Table recommends FAQ731-376

 

[samv]

Up here in Canada - I don't feel that things are as grim as you portray the US situation.

We are having tougher times than maybe five years ago - with Nortel falling and the economies not going so well. But if you're willing to move you will certainly be able to find something you like - and soon. My issue was that I did not want to move, and I am in a smaller center so there are only a handful of companies that would ever hire an engineer like me. I expect I would have encountered a similar wait in other fields as well around here - not just engineering...

 

[rhodie]

The question needs to be asked in the context of specific engineering types.

For example, a plastics engineer may find work scare while a biomechanical engineer has more work than can be handled.

Of course, the supply of plastics engineers are far greater than biomechanicals. Sometimes academia takes time to catch up to market demand.

 

[FrenchCAD]

"The question needs to be asked in the context of specific engineering types. "

I agree with that. It seems to me that Computer engineers don't worry as much as Mechanical engineers for example.

Regarding the question of going where jobs are : well, I'm ready to move, even overseas...the question here is more "Will my girlfriend follow me?" and sadly, I'm affraid the answer is no. I'm sure to not be alone facing this situation. Then it's kind of a difficult choice : career or love?

I'm kinda surprised to see the difficulty to get a job in Mechanical Engineering when we know the large scale of jobs a Mechanical Engineer can fulfill. Heck, I even had a teacher working for L'Oréal : he was studying cracks formation on make up products...did you ever imagine such a job would exist? So, how come the engineer market seems so closed when we can touch such a variety of jobs?

Cyril Guichard
Mechanical Engineer

 

[Scoobystu]

You are certainly not alone Frenchcad, in your Career or Love debate.

I took a job that I wasn't too happy about just so that I could move closer to my girlfriend as she was very reluctant to move where I was working at the time. I am now quite keen to move away again and am hoping that I have convinced her that it is a good idea.

Your question did however start me thinking about something.....

If the world population is split approximately 50% male/female means that wherever you go in the world there should be a relatively equal balance of men and women. This is however untrue about jobs due to the economic climate being in a state of turmoil.

So if you moved somewhere for the purposes of getting a job or furthering your career there should be a fair number of potential partners in that area, after of course you discount the ones with; personality disorders(!), too old/ too young, too short/too tall, and that don't run away when you eventually tell them that you are an engineer, you should be left with a fair number to choose from. This figure will no doubt be around 1 or 2!!

Basically if you look at it mathematically rather than romantically then you have a much better chance of having a partner and a job that you were happy with if you decided to move.

Seriously though I think it is a very tricky balance and depends on you personal priorities in life.

 

[VivK]

Greg Locock wrote in thread730-63385:
"In Australia we are having difficulty recruiting experienced engineers, of specific types, but that is partly because we don't train enough technical stream engineers up."

I'm in oz, I am not that experienced but I'm very willing to be train up in a technical area (as oppose to accounting/commence/management that some of my friends had turned to). Just advise me which area I should be in - and I am being serious. I am hungry to be in a more techical role and wnat to go in a more technical career direction. Personally I don't mind mining but unfortunately I have a "career or love?" choice to make too regarding weeks-on/days-off work situations.

swertel wrote:
"... I got into school when the graduates couldn't find any jobs. I debated long and hard about going into engineering. Thankfully, the market turned around 4 years later and I had no problems finding a job."

I had a similar experience, though the opposite. When I started uni, engineering was quite popular, especially EEE, computer system and chemical. I chosed Mech knowing full well that Mechanical was more of a mature market and perhaps the market demand might not be as good as EEE or computer system but hey, mech is what I like to do and a Mech Eng is what I wannabe. When I graduated, myself and my friends had trouble finding jobs - it took me about 9 mths and 100+ application letters to find a job. Perhaps that had shaped my POV of the job market. To me, the current market seems to be pretty ok - more ads than when I graduated. To my brother, an EEE who graduated a few years after me, today's market is not as good - he got his first and current job within the month he graduated and after only about 5 application letters.

I agree with FrenchCAD that EEE and Computer engineers seems to have more oppportunities but theirs are perhaps more recent and still fast growing disciplines. (Mechanical) Engineering is morphing. Eg. New tech now involve more electronics (in cars, manuf robotics and automation), hence more jobs for EEE and Computer engineers, but also "new breeds" - Mechatronics engineers for example. We have to morph with the trend too.

A simple view that I had when I chosed mechanical engineering was that as long as people want things that move (cars or machinaries as oppose to buildings), as long as people want those things to be design/build (mass produce), surely I should be able to find work as a mechanical engineer.

 

[VivK]

Scoobystu wrote:
Basically if you look at it mathematically rather than romantically then you have a much better chance of having a partner and a job that you were happy with if you decided to move.

As for us chicks in engineering, there are just so many potential partners to choose from!

 

[GregLocock]

We have recently had to go overseas to find:

FE Analysts, particularly crash and NVH

Engine/trans calibrators

Ride and Handling Development engineers

NVH development engineers

Now, these are almost all interesting jobs that cannot be learnt from textbooks, and for that matter the coverage during a university degree would be of (ahem) limited utility.

What we should be doing is taking interested graduates and teaching them this stuff, and letting them get and use the experience over years and years. Instead, when we employ graduates, they spend six months to a year in each department in rotation,for three years, and then usually zoom off into lower (and I mean low) management.

We then scrabble around the world looking for competent, qualified, experienced people to do these jobs. This costs us more, does not employ Australians, and adds a long lead time to new projects. Bizarre.

Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[FrenchCAD]

"What we should be doing is taking interested graduates and teaching them this stuff, and letting them get and use the experience over years and years"

That's funny you wrote this. Companies generally look for experienced people, but how come do you become experienced if you can't get a job because you aren't experienced? I always found this part kinda viscious. And currently, I hate this more and more. I'm ending my final placement for MSME and I'm beginning to look for a job, and so far, the only answers I got were about me not being enough experienced....

Also, in France, we have a huge difference between Engineering Schools and Universities teaching engineering. Companies do prefer engineering coming from Engineering schools better than students who took engineering at university...poor me

Cyril Guichard
Mechanical Engineer

 

[Scoobystu]

VivK

You must count your blessings every day!!