Engineering hours to design and develop various prototypes

[TimSchrader2]

Hello
Looking for a site or other data base with typical ENG hours used to develop various Mechanical prototypes, Machines, mobile equipment or Bridges or other. I am sure this data is often recorded. Is it available anywhere?

I found two sites that give data for car development. Anywhere from 1 to 5 years with 10 to 40 people. Depending on how similiar the design is to existing designs. That's 10 to say 40x5years=200 man years of ENG labor. Quite a range.

This data is hard to find

Thanks

 

[alchemon]

All these all new designs, or modifications to existing? A totally new design of a complicated machine mechanism is going to be millions/billions, I would guess.

For things like bridges, generally the design fee is between 3-12% of the overall construction budget. This is going to vary heavily depending on scope of work, how many times the design gets changed, environmental issues, land issues, etc. This is for design production only. The larger the project, the closer to 3% you will be, in general.

In any case, I would carry a minimum 10% contingency on your design budget to allow for overages, redesigns, and/or unforeseen scope.

 

[TimSchrader2]

Hello
Thanks for your reply

I am designing something similiar to a Telebelt that delivers concrete from the street to the jobsite off the road. See below. I believe they cost about 500K new. It is a different design unlike the existing but similiar in purpose as both deliver concrete with a telescopic conveyor belt. 500K x .12= 60K. I would think design cost would be about 2000 man hours. Does the 12% include manufacturing engineering costs? Since I already have about 6 months on this design, 12 months seems a fair estimate. This would include the bid process and maybe most of the prototype manufacturing supervision. I am the only one on the design team right now. We will probably hirer a designer to help with the fab drawings.

I was looking for data that supports this estimate to show the investor/owner who wants the machine 'tomorrow'. Design costs for a large telescopic crane should be similiar.

Thanks again

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[CWB1]

I doubt you will find reliable information available publicly online as this seems to be an area that many PMOs struggle to analyze with any reasonable accuracy, especially for companies that design a decently wide range of products. Bottom line is that you're likely going to have to rely largely on your own past experience with similar projects at that employer.

 

[IRstuff]

I don't think you can go by sell price, alone, since it should be relatively obvious that amortization has to occur over the number of units sold, as well, and you don't necessarily have insight into the cost of materials, etc.

As CWB, suggests, the typical approach is to base the estimate on something relatively similar, for which you have the full development costs. You then estimate what impact the scope difference will make to the overall cost. This is a valid basis of estimate (BOE) approach recommended for development projects.

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[tmschrader]

Hello

Well, we know the info on costs of various prototypes is out there, in various company databases or other computors. But apparently no website or other place where that info is shared. I guess I can not blame them for keeping that info propietary.

Thanks for the input

 

[GeoEnvGuy]

The amount of engineering effort is dependant on the anticipated product. Where it takes 1-5 years of 10-40 engineers to design a car, consider the base model economically priced subcompact car to the luxury sport SUV with all the latest electronic features and hybrid electric motor.

At the core of the matter is how much effort do you want to invest into a product overall and which features do you want to do economically and which features will require a more custom solution.

 

[alchemon]

There are two major ways to develop a design fee: a “top down” or “bottom up”. A top down would be like X% percentage of the construction budget.

A bottom up - is basically estimating the labor hours, software, sub consultant labor, etc for each individual task. You then will have a man hour total. It sounds like you have already done this at roughly 2000 hours. This seems like a lot for a $500k product, but my experience is not in the manufacturing section. The estimating is going to be much different between the manufacturing and construction world - as a company may spend billions to develop a new $30k list price car. But the payback is in the volume of selling - vs. construction which is typically more “custom per the job”.

Normally it is wise in the construction consultant world - to “do both” to check your numbers.

I believe you will be best served using a “bottom up” fee proposal. I am not sure that you will find anything public on a top down in the manufacturing world.

Once you have developed the number of man hours required and all misc costs for development, etc.- decide how many hours and costs you are passing onto your client, multiply that by the billable hourly rate for the individuals working on the job and add in the costs. Then submit your proposal to the client.

Your billable hourly rate is a totally different discussion though.

 

[IRstuff]

I am sure this data is often recorded. Is it available anywhere?

Yes it's recorded, and no, it's generally not available to the anyone outside of the company that recorded their own data. Since the accuracy of such data can make, or break, the profit line, it's typically proprietary.

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[TimSchrader2]

Hello

Thanks again for the replys

I wonder how protected this info is. If someone recorded thier companies data and posted it on some website or even a book. Sounds like a good oportunity for someone like a PM, if they can do it. Lots of info on various estimating techniques, but hardly any real data.

I recall that Pratt and Whitney recorded everything on the design jobs, when I worked there.

Rule of Thumb. Always multiply your 'Bottom up' itemized estimates by 2 (IMHO) for mechanical engineering and by 3 for Web site rear end design. My daughter does PM web site estimates and always take the designers estimate and multiply's by 3. Which has been quite accurate. Although this is data base engineering and probaly nothing like a regular web site.

If the design work use a existing design as a baseline you can be more accurate. i recall the budget estimates at Pratt where usually conservative. But hey, that's for Goverment work

 

[IRstuff]

As I mentioned, it's typically proprietary, since it reveals the cost structure of the company.

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[truckandbus]

I think you need to understand the capabilities of your engineers and your suppliers. My previous company could do in 12 months what my current company takes 36 months to do.

I did the estimating in my previous company and I 'knew' certain jobs took 1000 man-hours, others took 7000, and the big ones took 15000 (10 on the front end and 5 after customer shakedown). We did the majority of fabrication on-site but we had local suppliers that were good for 5 or 10 day turn around on parts. We didn't invest much in tooling so that kept the timing short