Engineering Managers and their inexperienced employees 3

[s0eebuch]

Hey all,

I am a relatively inexperienced engineer working for a seasoned engineering manager. We work for a consulting firm, doing civil-related projects.

She has about 10+ years of experience with this company and I have been here less than 2 years. We are both P.E.s.

My question is to those who have managed inexperienced engineers before. How do you handle mistakes and/or omissions made by those that work for you?

I try to be as thorough as possible with specifications, reports, plans and the like - but it always seems like I've missed an obvious (to my boss) item. She ends up very unhappy and eventually takes over my projects to 'clean them up'. At times, she has not assigned projects to me because she says she can finish them quicker and 'correctly'. She has admitted she is 'nit-picky' at times, but that doesn't change the way she approaches my work.

How can I address this issue? I'm starting to lose motivation and desire to do my best because nothing appears to be good enough. And I can't seek advise from others here because we're such a small group - there isn't anyone else I can turn to!

Advice? Thoughts? Should I suck it up and stop complaining?

 

[s0eebuch]

Awesome; great points, all of you. I just submitted a set of plans to be reviewed and was glancing over her comments. I feel better because, even though the first two pages are bleeding, most of the comments are preference - not errors or omissions.

Could this be a sign of progress and improvement on my part?

Ross0684 - I've considered the 'control freak' aspect. But I am in no position to address that, esp. if she doesn't acknowledge any problems with her management style. Like others have said, I can only address my work and how I respond to her management style.

HamishMcTavish - lol, good point! There are projects I'm not involved with that I assume she has other engineers in our other offices check over her work for her. At least, I hope that's the case! It is company policy to have others review any work going to a client - I am sure she follows that policy.

Again, the biggest issue is how unique each of our projects is and the fact that each client has their own set of rules when it comes to designs, plans, specifications, and engineering reports. In other words, while client A is a huge stickler on plan notes, client B may feel all significant notes are covered in their standards. Client C wants PVC pipe for all their sewer, yet Client D holds to the idea that ductile iron is the way to go. So, not only do we juggle the various design aspects of each project, we also juggle the needs/preferences of each client.

I guess another point I should make is the fact that, even though she comes across as unhappy at times, she says she doesn't regret hiring me or bringing me into her group. In fact, she was even downright positive in my last performance evaluation. Of course, those don't always mean what they say....I've been around long enough to know that much!

It just seems like doomsday/end-of-the-world when I goof.

 

[debodine]

s0eebuch, you have mentioned more than once the belief that some of her complaints appear to be preference rather than right/wrong decisions. I don't have the answer for you but I certainly identify with your concern.

I have found that most "preference" issues from engineers who check the work of other engineers fall into two categories. First there is the ever-present and universally hated, "Well, that is the way we did it in my last company" line. Often when this is the attitude, the checking engineer is simply used to a certain manner of depicting something, and wants to see similar things depicted in a similar manner. The problem is that sometimes checking engineers get the feeling that this is the "right" way, which usually morphes into the "ONLY right way". It is frustrating to deal with because while engineering design is a pass/fail (either the design lives up to all its intended purposes or it does not), their are often within accepted standards many right ways of depicting the design intent.

The second category is much more useful, in that a truly experienced and knowledgeable checking engineer may be telling you (not in these exact words), "I am aware that there a number of acceptable and legitmate ways to depict this design intent, but I would like you to know from my extensive experience that this specific manner of depiction is very well accepted and understood in our industry by our manufacturing employees, by our customers and by our regulatory authorities, so by following my lead you can improve your (and our company's) success rate."

Heaven help you though, if a checking engineer living in the first category is convinced they are operating in the second!!

debodine

 

[debodine]

Please forgive my inappropriate use of the word "their" in my last post. The sentence should have read, "...it does not), there are often...

I am not aware if the ability to edit a published post exists on this forum, and I should have proofread more thoroughly.

 

[s0eebuch]

Thanks, debodine. Oddly enough, I knew what you meant (from the context of the entire post) and was able to 'mentally' correct your use of "their".

Yeah, I think my boss falls in the second category on most items. On the remaining items - well, I take them as they come.

It's funny - one of the marks on my last set of plans was a big question mark next to a weld detail for a cap on top of a steel bollard (just a length of pipe, really). She's a civil engineer, I'm mechanical - it never crossed my mind that she wouldn't be familiar with a weld detail! I wonder if there are other areas like this that aren't as obivous to me.......hmmmm, makes me think.......

 

[GMcD]

I was mentored by a guy who would take my new attempts at drawings and designing, and sit down for an hour after normal work hours and he would mark up the drawings at a table with me and explain why he was marking up whatever. I learned quickly the what and the why of the drawings and details, and tried not to make the same mistake twice. After about a year of that, he left me alone except for the usual round-table pre-tender checks to catch the usual stuff that feel between the cracks.

 

[HgTX]

Are you saying she didn't recognize a welding symbol? As a civil engineer, she should.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[KENAT]

Debodine has a good point, I sometimes struggle to make sure I'm checking to published standards etc, or genuine 'best practices' not just my own habits, preferences etc. It's amazing how hard this can be at times.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[s0eebuch]

Hmmm....good point. Perhaps she was questioning why I included the weld detail? My thought was that if the contractor tried to build his own bollards, I gave him the information he needed to do so (i.e. material call-outs, weld detail, elevation and profile views, ect.)

I haven't had a chance to speak with her concerning her comments yet....I'm sure I'll find out why she's questioning it.

 

[s0eebuch]

nope, she didn't know what a weld detail was.

Also, I wonder if she's reading this post - yesterday she reviewed a set of plans I'd laid out and her mark-ups were minimal. Overall, she said the plans looked very good.

So...either I'm improving or she read this post. ???

 

[jmw]

sOeebuch, this is not a forum for paranoia nor idle speculation.

We like measureable testable propositions.

I know students aren't supposed to post on this site (but some do) but whatever we may think of managers, they are allowed so it is quite possible.

Is it probable your manager is reading this post?

The approved NDT procedure in this case is to now say something really nice and complimentary about her.
Measure her attitude to you over the next couple of days and then come back and say something uncomplimentary and pretty rotten.

Iterate until convergence on a conclusive solution.

Report the results for discussion and analysis.

(PS, for this test, be sure your CV/Resume is up to date)


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[s0eebuch]

LOL, good stuff!

Oh, and I prefer 'protege' to student - but I get the idea.

 

[ykee]

Are you sure that test method falls into the NDT category.....

 

[jmw]

Well, now you come to mention it.....

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[jimgineer]

Whenever I mark up plans, I make it a point to try to sit with whoever did the plans to go through what mistakes were made or design considerations along the way. This makes for a much more intelligent workforce, and it is much easier to communicate future requirements/changes that take place during design. It really comes down to what kind of work your company does in terms of how able a manager can do this for you. As a young engineer, I’ve been in your shoes, feeling extremely frustrated with a manager’s lack of willingness to invest time and apparent caring in someone else.

In my mind, the ability to show some empathy and get beyond pure management to leadership is what will enable a manager (and organization that is dependent on the manager) to reach the next level.

But the trump card here is that, a worker needs to be competent and show that he/she is learning and the company’s investment in them will pay off.

 

[plasgears]

Every experienced engr should have the opportunity to mentor recent grads. The best example for me was an MME who was an expert in fracture mechanics. I worked it into my design, and it turned out to be an inspiration to the customer, the USAF. They incorporated it into wing design reqts.

To make this work, hire the best. It makes for good cross-pollination.

 

[swivel63]

for those things you keep missing, do you know why it's neccessary for them to be on plan? she might not be a good mentor.