Engineering Union 2

[buzzp]

Does anyone know the reason why engineering ethics include the statement that engineers shall not form a union? Where did this originate from is really my question. I am not real interested in hearing arguments for or against the union just curious to know why someone thought it was important enough not to have an engineering union. Thanks

 

[Lorentz]

I have my doubts that most engineers would be any better off if they did form a union, simply because of a lack of bargaining power.

Unions are effective when they have the power to deny an essential service. If bus drivers go on strike Sunday night, a lot of people are going to be late for work Monday morning. If engineers go on strike...well most companies can continue to produce and sell their existing product line for an indefinite period of time without the engineers. Odds are the company can out wait the engineers.

 

[i278]

Lorentz,

Before you resign yourself to a position of powerlessness (which, I think, alot of engineers are apt to do), take a look at one engineer's account of participating in the Boeing engineering strike (which is the only engineering union strike I can remember hearing about):

http://www.avweb.com/news/atis/181947-1.html

There's a follow-up article on the site as well.

I bet that if you thought about it, you'd find similar day-to-day functions that would be hard-pressed to continue without your engineering dept's presence.

Just a thought,

Regards

 

[Lorentz]

Thanks i278, I gave you a star.

I just skimmed thru the original article. Is the strike now settled?

 

[i278]

Lorentz,

Yes, this all happened in early 2000. Here, I was too lazy to track down the follow-up link before:

http://www.avweb.com/news/atis/181948-1.html

Both articles are pretty good reads, especially for those of us that have never been in a union or had to negotiate employment contracts.

Regards

 

[AndrewTX]

I have never been a fan of unions so I wouldln't join an engineering union even if one existed here.

However, given the concern with outsourcing, etc. I think the fastest way to convince a company to outsource its engineering department would be to unionize.

Boeing is in a unique situation as their only real compatition is Airbus which is in heavily unionized Europe.

I would like to see the software engineers in Seattle try to unionize. Their jobs would all be moved to India within a week.

 

[Lorentz]

Thanks again i278, the articles were both a good read.

However, I think that AndrewTX has raised an important point, for if you type "Boeing outsourcing" into a search engine you will find numerous articles such as the one below:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/251611.cms?

SPEEA may have won a battle in 2000, but it seems like in the long run Boeing will win the war.

 

[IRstuff]

But, hypothetically, there is a difference between outsourcing to elsewhere in the US and outsourcing to a foreign country.

While Boeing does and must outsource to other companies in the US such as Northrop, Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, etc., there is a minimal amount of outsourcing to foreign companies due to the obnoxiousness of getting through customs and making sure that you are up to speed on ITAR.

One would not nor should not expect Boeing to build everything down to the nuts and bolts themselves. This is unrealistic and doomed to failure. Commodity items and items that are more efficiently manufactured elsewhere should be outsourced.

This is the exact model that you run your homes with. Most do not grow their own food, churn their own butter, make their own toilet paper. If you have that model, why would you expect companies to do otherwise?

TTFN