EQUIPMENT FOR PRELIMINARY SURVEYING 1

[rgsdez]

I'm starting to do more site plan work. As such I usually will, or will have the property owner, enlist the services of a surveyor during the process. I am finding that I need more and more preliminary survey work (locating preliminary control to show the owner alternative drive locations, some preliminary topo on the drives, alternative septic field locations, alternative house locations, etc..., and locating some existing features. I'm looking at purchasing a used instrument for surveying, such as a transit or theodolite. Any ideas on what to look for at a modist price ?
Be assured, eventually a surveyor will be brought into the site plan process to do the detailed and accurate survey work.

 

[SlideRuleEra]

Probably the best place to shop for decent used instrument at a modest price is on Ebay. Here is a link

http://business.listings.ebay.com/L...QfromZR11QQsacatZ55807QQsocmdZListingItemList

The brand that best meets your criteria will most likely be "David White". Be sure have set aside money to have any used instrument professionally calibrated.

Many used survey instruments are sold for their collecting value as antiques - not really intended for modern field use.

http://www.SlideRuleEra.net

 

[rgsdez]

SlideRuleEra,
Thanks for the post. I have looked there before but will focus a little more on the "David White" instruments.

 

[Maury]

Contact a local supplier of surveying instruments and inquire about used equipment. As slideruleera said, you may have to spend additional money on ebay purchased equipment to have it cleaned and adjusted. Don't skimp on this. Bad information is no better than nothing at all.

We use the Google Earth site to print out photos for preliminary work of the type you describe.

 

[rgsdez]

Maury,
Good advise, thanks. Bottom line, I'll still be dependent on the Surveyor for accurate info.

 

[rconner]

I don't know precisely what your needs are, but you could conceivably have some interest in the latter part of the thread discussion at

http://www.awwa.org/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=9155

(re "survey grade" GIS/GPS etc.)

 

[Ashereng]

We are using Google Earth for preliminary elevation data also. We then update with survey numbers.

Google Earth is often accurate to inches!

 

[RDK]

What sort of accuracy do you want?

How large an area are we talking about? How many observation points?

How much do you want to spend?

Do you want an all electronic solution (all you do is push buttons) or are you willing to re-enter some data?

How many intermediate steps between data in the field and finished drawings are you willing to tolerate?

Do you want to be able to work alone or are you willing to take a rod man out with you?


I’d never go back to doing this with a transit and chain but you could get started doing it that way for less than a thousand or so. Very time consuming, lots of sources of error and many intermediate steps and calculations before you have something in AutoCAD.


There are a lot of good used total stations out there that require two people to operate and they can record data, put it into an electronic format for you (CSV or excel table sometimes to AutoCAD point plot files). These will give you millimeter accuracy and produce CSV files that you will have to convert to an AutoCAD file to start your drawing.

Alternatively there are some GPS units out there that one person can operate and that will also produce the same sort of data files but only require one person to operate and do not require lines of sight from the station to the target.


In either case expect to pay $5,000 to $10,000 for a used set depending on what, how much storage and other optional equipment. New or millimeter accuracy GPS will be more than that.


The advice about having the equipment checked and calibrated upon purchasing and periodically after is an essential step. Bad data is much worse than no data since you will start design and perhaps construction (or purchasing material) and then have to re-do some things once the good data starts coming in. Never skimp on the initial data collection with the hope of fixing things later. It’s false economy.



Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[rgsdez]

RDK,
Lot of good questions, here's what I'm thinking:
-Accuracy, is a tough question, probably the best I can get. I 'm hoping for 6 inches on distances and 20 seconds max on angles. Remember I'm still using a surveyor for final products.
-Areas may be 50 foot wide corridors that go on for 100's to 1000's of feet. Also up to acre sites for peliminary topo and picking up exist. features.
-Ideally I'd like to spend under $1000, is that realistic??
-Electronic solutions would be great but probably not in the budget unless I can get used equipment (ie ebay)
-bottom line,although I'd like to plot data right from the instrument I think I'll be taking field notes for now and sitting at the computer. I will need to weigh the add'l time on the computer vs. the add'l cost for a better unit, like I said $1000 max at this point.
-I'll probably working with a rod man. Possibly using EDM instead of chaining.
I wouldn't mind GPSing the data and preliminary drive alignments but I think the cost will be to high. Also, I agree with the comments on having equipment checked and calibrated, especially if I have to pickup a used instrument.
Thanks everyone, all good info to keep me thinking.

 

[RDK]

$1,000 is most likely not realistic for that sort of accuracy unless you are willing to do a lot of manual work after the field data collection.

Check e-bay and local suppliers for prices and availability of equipment.

You could also rent on an as needed basis.

Renting has advantage of no capital cost, calibrated equipment always and the ability to try different equipment before making a purchase decision. The disadvantage is that if you have a lot of work it gets expensive (usually around 10% capital cost per month 1% per day), equipment may not be available the day you need it, the rental place may not be close or easy to get to and you may have to get familiar with many types of different equipment since the same equipment may not be available when you need it.

Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[rgsdez]

Renting was my choice in the past. I typically could only find "Bergers" or old transits. Not much of a selection and I was always suspect to their accuracy. Some looked pretty banged up. I would need to look further away for a better rental place, ideally a shop that services and sells intruments. Not one within an hours drive of my location that I've found. My Surveyor friends typically send their instruments out to get serviced. I should follow up on that possibility though.

 

[Hoagie]

Why do the survey at all? Call the aerial surveyors in your local area. They may have already flown your site. If so, you can get a cadd file topo for about $3500.00, 3-d smart and ready to use. You won't be able to beat the price and accuracy...also you shed the liability.

Besides, you may want to check with your local licensing board for restrictions on surveying for the unlicensed.

But if you really want to learn how to crank angles, well then , good luck.

H.

 

[rgsdez]

Getting the topo from the areials is definitely the best and easiest way for me. I've used it before, if areas are already flown its great. If not I need the surveyor out there for targets. Around here the costs can easily hit $7000 to $8000. The project I currently have has topo about 15 years old for an 80 acre parcel. The property owner has made some changes to the property but not alot. I'm using the exist. info as much as possible, supplimenting it in some locations for a minor subdivision project. In preliminary work I can make do with the info. In the end, I don't think we'll need the aerial topos. If it gets to be to much data pickup I 'll bring the Surveyor in early.

 

[Cosimo]

Although it sounds out of your budget for now, I just purchased a Nikon DTM 332 total station. Soup to nuts, including rod, target, instrument, delivery, download software etc. was $ 5,400.00 No data collector required, you download directly from the instrument. I did an analysis of the cost versus how we used to shoot grades (construction level and stadia rod), time for note reduction, etc. The payback is relatively quick. Most suppliers will even provide financing/leasing options that will get you down to under 200/month. Good luck.

 

[rossmail]

a lot of legal survey companies have switched over to total station now and there are some great wild instruments out there that are set up to be used with a mini red (electronic measurement)with a good 2" or 5" transit and mini red a person can layout everything just as fast as a total station .the moni red just gives the distance and you calculate the slope ,very easy with the transit,what ever you get take it in and have it adjusted so you dont find out that it is out during a layout that turns out in the wrong place.

 

[rgsdez]

Thanks for all the input. I have been able to find a Lietz/Sokkisha TM6 and rod for under $1000, but it took a lot of searching. Next step is to have it checked out for accuracy.