ERP- Made2Manage & SolidWorks 2

[appliedocean]

New to forum and looking for info-
We are evaluating an ERP system called Made2Manage(m2m)and it's use/funtionality with SolidWorks. What I'm looking for is non-vendor feedback from folks that have experience with the tools.

[li]More specifically how well does the software tie into SolidWorks & PDMworks?[/li]
[li]How well does the system use/support lifecycle management?[/li]
[li]Also what are the "gotchas" that we should be aware of?[/li]

Any info or experience appreciated-
thanks in advance

-MBEngmgr

 

[NL8]

WE are currently using M2M and SW, though we're only looking in to the tie in tool that would allow SW to generate part entries and BOM's. They say it's one of the best ERP's in the industry but I've been a little disappointed with it, given the lack of real updating that happens between the engineering BOM's the system keeps and the Job BOM's it generates for production. As far as we could tell the tie in tool had a lot of promise, was compatible with SW 08, wouldn't do weldments, and had what we consider to be a pretty hefty price tag, so at the moment it's been tabled for the future.

Joe Hasik, CSWP
SW 08 x64, SP 3.0
Dell T3400
Intel Core2 Quad
Q6700 2.66 GHz
3.93 GB RAM
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4600

 

[appliedocean]

Joe-
Thanks much for the info, it really helps to hear from actual users.
I'm curious about the lack of real updating that you mention between the Engineering BOM and the manufacturing BOM, can you explain a little further?

again thank you for the feedback, it helps and is appreciated.
-MB

 

[NL8]

What it comes down to, and it's been a real thorn in our side lately, is that when a job order is opened to build a part or a system M2M goes into the standard engineering BOM record and pulls a current copy. If the job in question is still in the design phase and the production manager only opened the job to make sure the time was scheduled for it, then when an engineer adds parts or changes parts on the engineering BOM it will not update the BOM for the Job Order dynamically, somebody has to go in and manually make the system pull a most current BOM. In short, the BOM's aren't dynamically linked and require manual updating if changes are made. Also, if Job Orders are opened to have a fabrication department make a certain piece and the commitments for that piece are removed the Job's don't get canceled and the fab department still makes the part, unless manually canceled. basically once a Job is created it runs through the production system regardless of a change in commitment.

Joe Hasik, CSWP
SW 08 x64, SP 3.0
Dell T3400
Intel Core2 Quad
Q6700 2.66 GHz
3.93 GB RAM
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4600

 

[appliedocean]

Joe-
thanks for the feedback.
-MB

 

[NL8]

No problem. If you happen to go with M2M and the software that links SW to it please let me know what you think, we as a company are only partially sold on the concept and I'd love to hear feedback from an actual user.

Joe Hasik, CSWP
SW 08 x64, SP 3.0
Dell T3400
Intel Core2 Quad
Q6700 2.66 GHz
3.93 GB RAM
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4600

 

[appliedocean]

will do-
-MB

 

[toffeet]

I have a relatively good knowledge of MRP theory and software and I doubt that you will find ERP software that will update job orders automatically when changes are made to BOM’s. Automatic updates to job orders will mean that you’re latest MRP calculations is inaccurate and if BOM’s keeps on changing it will drive your material planners and buyers nuts.
What we do is to create a Sales Order with a scheduled delivery date. Then as the design progress we add the completed sub-assemblies as separate line items to the sales order and create job orders for each line item.

Kind regards,
Theodore Turner

Solid Edge V20 SP4 on WinXP SP2

 

[NL8]

It would be nice to see the ERP at least notify the Production Manager that demand for a certain set of JO's has been changed to 0 and he needs to find out why.

Joe Hasik, CSWP
SW 08 x64, SP 3.0
Dell T3400
Intel Core2 Quad
Q6700 2.66 GHz
3.93 GB RAM
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4600

 

[Locum]

With regards to your question there are so many follow-up's I can’t even list them here. So here is what I have (I’ll leave it to you to match it to whatever you’re looking at):

I currently have M2M deployed in house with many seats and have done so for over 8 years now.
We use M2M 5.6 on MS SQL2K SP4.
We use SFM (Shop Floor Manager) from M2M
We use SWI (SolidWorks Interface) from M2M
We use the M2M Gateway
We are using SW2008
We are in the process of installing PDMWorks Enterprise2008 with MS SQL2005.

1. Stay away from M2M 6.0. It’s still in beta right now.

2. As far as LCM. I just typed the phrases “LCM”, “life cycle”, and “life cycle management” in the knowledgebase and came up with “No knowledgebase results found based on your criteria.” Nor is there any mention of anything that addresses LCM in the product page. ERP, SCM, CRM, and Finance yes, but no LCM. I don’t know if you’re ISO9001 but if you are I don’t know if M2M can really address those needs. Your PDMWorks archiving, revision control and workflows with notifications will have to carry the load on that one.

3. There is actually very little that is native to M2M ERP system that integrates with SolidWorks. I would not recommend the additional cost for SWI (Solid Works Interface) right now. This product was developed for another ERP, not M2M. It shows promise and may be better in a few months but we are currently having issues akin to a development process.

4. One thing to look for when installing PDMWorks where M2M is present. Make sure the SQLDMO.dll is not the system32 folder (where M2M sometimes puts it). This made us unable to use PDMWorks Enterprise Administrator console on any clients where M2M was present. PDMWorks also uses that file and by default looks in the system32 folder. It will find that it is incompatible.

5. When you look at your Item Master under the Engineering Tab you will find that there are fields to define where files are located for that part. We use this extensively for engineering files and other things that require automation and manual access. Why is this a problem with M2M? Because if you tell M2M that a DXF is located in your vault you will be unable to access the vault directly. Because it is not actually there, only items cached actually exist as a file.

For those without PDMWorks, this is a hard one to explain. Windows functionality is a word that is used a lot in PDMWorks. We call it “The VooDoo Screen”. What you see in a folder in Windows is a “View” and not actually there, nor does it have all the files therein. It is a Visual representation of a Query that tells you what is available to you either “Cached” (local) or “Vaulted” (locked, managed and renamed in a DB). This is where the PDMWorks View mixes the truth with lies.

To work around this, we have to “get latest version”, using a shortcut to the “View” (c:\Martin Test Vault\SW\Products) before using the links in M2M.

Also, you cannot map to the PDM via Windows. You can only map, old school style, using your command line like the following: C:\> net use X: “ \\Client\c$\Martin Test Vault\SW\Products” .

The location on C is where my “View” is established. This is the local cache NOT the entire vault. The direct route and the map will show totally different results. When I look at my “View” via explorer I see everything. However, when I look at my mapped drive, its contents contain only items that were cached. This is where it gets relatively complex for an average user.


There are a ton of other items to address but without further consideration on product, compliances, versions and other gross subjects this is where I will leave it. This is more than I ever got before I bought into all these Silver Bullet Solutions from various sales weasels.

BTW...To anyone that may disagree, I will be happy to retract and/or extol the virtues of anything above if it can be PROVEN to me that anything I posted is wrong. And not with some theoretical, circular logic, mumbo jumbo but actually proven to me with proof of concept case examples.

 

[NL8]

Locum,

Thanks for the heads up on the SWI, I know upper management thought it had some great promise and was considering pushing us there to save on licenses for M2M. The IT guy and myself were concerned that this tool wasn't all it was cracked up to be yet, and it's nice to get confirmation on our fears. A star for you.

Joe Hasik, CSWP
SW 08 x64, SP 3.0
Dell T3400
Intel Core2 Quad
Q6700 2.66 GHz
3.93 GB RAM
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4600

 

[appliedocean]

Locum-
A very detailed explanation of some critical interface issues, thank you.

Please clarify my understanding of Item #5 in your response. (we use PDMWorks currently)
[li]When you try and access a file from m2m, such as DXF, that is inside the pdm vault you are denied access because the file has "security locks" that are associated with the PDM application.[/li]

[li]Will you provide an "in process" example that may help me understand this issue in regards to production.[/li]

Thank you for the input, it is very helpful in evaluating this product.
-MB

 

[SoundCheck]

Hi all, long time viewer, first time poster.

Locum, Thanks for the link you sent to this post. Here are some of my thoughts.

-M2M v5.52 for SQL2005
-SolidWorks 2008 sp3.0
-PDMWorks 2008 sp2.0
-SigmaNEST v8.0 build E75 (CNC profiling/nesting solution)

*As far as the Engineering BOM and Job BOM functionality, you don't want your Engineering BOM's to drive change in the Job BOM as mentioned. The theory is if the design is not completed, you don't need a job created. If I create a job for a customer, I want it as is. I don't want an intern changing the E BOM and driving the JOB BOM to change.

*M2M is a powerful tool but our company does not use it as we should. We simply use it to create BOMs and Routings and to print and track jobs. All of our costs and routing hours are screwed up so we can not reliably use it to quote, schedule, purchase, etc. You must be diligent in how you input data to make this work.

*Locum, I don't have all of the modules for M2M that you do, but I must agree on all accounts. The PDMWorks "VooDoo" bites us every time a third party program accesses the vault. Unless a file is cached, it does not exist to the machine in question.

*We did not have the SQLDMO.dll issues that you did. However, we did not install PDMWorks under the same versions of software.

*We have been looking into the SWI for M2M and after sharing emails and phone calls with Locum, we will not be pursuing this until some advancements are made.

*PDMWorks 2007 (which we installed) was not a "completed" release as far as I am concerned. SW bought the software in the previous version and did nothing but change the name references for this release. PDMWorks 2008 is much more promising and they have fixed a lot of the issues that were plaguing us. It has a long way to go, but I see good things progressing.

Joe Willis