ethics of filing complaint 2

[struct_eeyore]

I have a buddy who is a contractor, and whom I will occasionally visit informally to shoot sh_t, and discuss projects locally. Last weekend he showed me a set of plans his company did for a local residence during a conversation. Coastal house (VE), very fancy, 2 story - but when I saw the foundation, the first thing that popped is that the whole thing sits on a few pilasters built up from 8x16 block - the house itself is wood frame, so these things are at cantilevering out of the grade beams. I recently did a residence near by, and just the coastal flood (breaking wave, velocity, impact) easily pushed me to use solid concrete columns (similar cantilevered design), with a much tighter spacing. Now, granted, I did not sit there and calculate his design, but I would be that if I did, I would find that this building is going to collapse well below the design storm (we are on the Gulf). The plans themselves were signed by an architect, so that makes me even more anxious that proper design was not done. I have no previous vendetta against the guy who singed this; however, sometime in the next couple of weeks I plan to run a number to check that the house is in fact grossly under-designed - what next? Should I file a complaint with the county? State architecture board? Forget about this?

 

[JLNJ]

How about a frank, non-accusatory talk with your friend? Maybe your concerns were addressed in a way which is not obvious, or maybe your builder-friend will appreciate the heads-up.

 

[Lomarandil]

Koot.... wow... that's taking your famous sketches to a whole new level!

But, I also endorse the "Crucial Conversations" book as a fantastic resource.

----
just call me Lo.

 

[kissymoose]

This can be a hard question, so I'm going to answer in a deeper way. By all you means you should address this, in some way or another. We don't spend our lives developing standards and designs to let inadequate, faulty plans get made into buildings and be rewarded the same. If I didn't do anything about it, I would be pestered with thoughts of how the system is broken, my efforts and work are not recognized, crappy design gets the same outcome as good design. It would be depressing. By doing something about it, having a little courage, we work towards what things should look like, working towards a vision, with pride in what goes on around us. I would crunch some preliminary numbers, get some confidence in understanding what's going on, and bring it to the architect with the focus on bettering the design community and the profession. If he responds harshly and immaturely, then leave him behind where he belongs and take it higher up. We complain about clients not understanding good from bad design, fees getting smaller, so hold designers accountable when situations like this come up. and remember, there's a minimum design criteria. If that's not met, it becomes a responsibility of anyone aware to do something about it.

 

[FLCraneBuilder]

I see this somewhat often in my world of overhead cranes

I'm asked to put a bridge crane on top of a runway system designed & built by others
I always run a sanity check on the structural members. When I find a problem, people are usually angry with me.
My response is that their runway beams do not have a sticker naming the manufacturer... while my crane does. When the crane is laying on the ground because the runway failed, my firm will get named in the suit. I have walked away from a job over this.

BTW - if there are any PEMB guys reading this.. your 5 to 6-1/2" wide haunches are horrible to land runway beams on - particularly when the building columns are erected out of plumb / tilted to & fro. My 29 cents worth..

 

[Ron247]

FLCraneBuilder, What part of the column are you calling the Haunch? I am not a PEMB designer, but I am familiar with the term haunch. Are you talking about a Stepped Crane Column?

As far as lawsuits, if you have any association with a failure and simultaneously have assets to lose, you will be named in the suit. I had an attorney once fishing to add me to a lawsuit because I was onsite at the time of an incident I had nothing to do with. I was on the other end of the project and was in no way associated with the problem. I was however, signed in at the site at the time of the incident and they saw I was an engineer (with insurance).

 

[BUGGAR]

I've always wondered what liability you "buy" by posting on this site. Do we have lawyer lurkers?

 

[FLCraneBuilder]

Ron247 - ref the "haunch" I discussed... I am referring to a short / stub beam horizontally placed & welded to the face of the main frame columns 4 ft or so below the underside of the main frames. With lighter capacity crane systems, this is a common approach. The crane's runway beams land on top of these haunchs. - They are often extraordinarily small. They are often made of light plate work as well.

 

[Ron247]

FLCrane, we used to call that a "Crane Bracket" when we cantilevered a short "arm" off a column to hold a crane beam. Haunch is a term in PEMBs that referred to the general rafter to Exterior column connection.

 

[Settingsun]

I'm picturing FLCraneBuilder repeatedly asking for bigger haunches, the PEMB guy doing it again and again while wondering how effing big he wants the haunches.

 

[Ron247]

Its another one of those terminology things. I have seen the Crane Bracket, a Stepped Crane Column and also a separate crane column that is tied back to the PEMB column.