Ethics of the job search 3

[EngineerDave]

A few questions and a scenario

1) If you are laid off, are you obligated to bring that up in the interview or can you dodge it as it's a liability and make it appear as if you are just looking for a new position? At the time I was contacting other companies I hadn't been officially laid off yet, so the fact that I was looking for a new job was in fact a correct statement. It still is for that matter of fact.

It's not that I don't want to be truthful, I just don't want to hurt my chances for a layoff which i still believe was unjustified given the circumstances.

2) If you were contacted discretely by a company which is unhappy with their current employee and considering replacing them, would you feel guilty discussing a position with them? The reason I feel a bit guilty is that by entering in discussions I feel like I could be responsible for said parties loss of job if I was offered a position. Where does ethics, guilt and sensitivity rule into this? I know it'd be a bitter pill for me to swallow to take someone elses job, especially after just being laid off myself.

The other item connected to that is, I wonder if I'd be entering a no win situation as well.

In any event I have talked a bit to the company listed in situation 2 and they bluntly stated the gentleman isn't getting the work done on time.

It looks like the position could be fairly demanding, not unlike most positions in my field.

Just wondering your thoughts.

 

[davidinindy]

I'd say you were layed off. In this economic climate, they're used to seeing it.
As far as replacing someone... Hey. It's business. If he/she wasn't a good fit, or wasn't doing a great job, then so be it. It's none of your business. Take their place and do the best job you can.

David

 

[RebelBrill]

I have been downsized three times in the my 40 years as an engineer, each time from a large engineering/manufacturing company. Each time the company provided a very well written letter to all who were downsized explaining that the layoff was necessitated by business conditions and was not a reflection on the former employees performance.

Each time the company provided an array of outplacement services which I used and appreciated.

I did present the letter to potential employers when job searching, and explained, as accurately as I could, the circumstances and my experience with the company. I don't believe that the fact that I was downsized closed any employment doors to me.

I always managed to start my next job the day after I left my previous employment.

 

[KirbyWan]

After graduate Kansas State in '06, my first job was for a company that made catalytic converters for large industrial engines. It was a decent job, but not a lot of engineering work. I basiclly used a prewritten spreadsheet to size the converters based on the engine used and the targest to be met. After 6 months I was fired, being told that it wasn't a good fit.

When I interviewed for my current job at an Aviation Repair Station, I was asked why I left my last job and I said I was fired. I explained that I didn't really know why I was fired, I got along with people and learned what I needed for my job. They hired me any way, and I am now in job that I like much better, in a company that provides better training.

I would always be honest, especially when there is no shame in being laid off during a slow economy.

I also wouldn't worry about replacing someone. The person who replaced me might find that job a much better fit for them and the person you replaced might find a better job and a better fit. If a company is looking to replace them already don't feel bad about being the replacement. The only case where I might feel guilty is if they were not planning to replace someone but fired them just to make space for my amazing talents. I'm not expecting that any time soon.

-Kirby

 

[desertfox]

Hi EngineerDave

One thing I always think about when I hear stories about companies saying there not satisfied with this guy would you consider being his replacment is:-
If they will do that to a person then what stops them doing it to you at a later date.
In your post you state they have told you he isn't doing the work fast enough but the question really is, why isn't he doing it fast enough, maybe he as got to much to do or maybe he is to slow but I would stay clear of a job offered in this light.

desertfox

 

[EngineerDave]

Desertfox,

I agree with you. I went with my instinct on this as well and avoided the job where they are getting ready to fire someone and bring me in. It would have been alot easier to take that job in the sense that I wouldn't have had to relocate 5 hours away, but I have to go with my gut.

I also accepted the job 5 hours away before i got the official offer from the job in town where I'd be the replacement. That made it easier to turn it down as I didn't want to back out of a job I already accepted.

I have a feeling that job may open up again. I'm not sure that they will have an easy time finding a replacement. I'm in kind of a specialty niche, and the town I live in currently isn't one in which a ton of people are looking to relocate to, so it could make it difficult for them. So I think if I want to I might have a chance at that job again, possibly after they have more realistic expectations.

The guy that will likely be replaced had the unfortunate role of replacing a 15 year plus veteran who they really liked. This guy left for a different opportunity less than a year ago and the guy there now is struggling, hence the potential for his job loss and my offer to be his replacement.

 

[desertfox]

Hi EngineerDave

Its funny as I go along through life you learn to avoid situations like this, well I do anyway mainly because you only hear one side of the story. I also avoid jobs where they want you to takeover someone's role because that person is moving to another area or department within the same company, to me it usually means there is a mess waiting for the right fall guy and I am to long in the tooth for that now. I wish you well in your new role.

desertfox

 

[EngineerDave]

Thank you. You are right about that, the more years you get in the better you hone your instincts. I just wish I had left the last situation before the layoff happened. In retrospect, I should have seen it coming.