Existing halon system

[cdafd]

Finaly the new topic button worked

Looking to see 1. can an existing halon system be expanded to protect other areas.

2. and in this case there are about four 16 x 20 offices that were already divided in half, and one half was protected by halon and the other was not. for reasons the other half needs the halon protection.

3. any companies out there that can do expansion????

 

[FFP1]

I am a little confused.......Halon is not a suitable extinguishing agent for ordinary combustibles. I assume the room you refer to aove was originally a computer room with limited ordinary combustible materials. If this room is now a typical office area (with desk, chairs, paper, plastic, etc.), the Halon system is essentially useless. It will activate during a fire and reduce the oxygen level in the room (maybe not, if the protected area has doubled) for a short period of time; then the fire will rekindle as the Halon concentration decreases and the oxygen level increases. This will lead to a fire in an unprotected area.

Based on the limited amount of information provided above, it looks like water based automatic sprinkler protection is your best approach. If fire protection is not required, just go with a reliable smoke detection system (but make sure the local AHJ approves this approach).

Take care.

 

[cdafd]

sorry to use the term office, it is protecting mainly electrical equipment, and like I say for reasons the other area needs halon

just wondering if a existing halon system can be expanded, and any names of companies out there the do it

 

[PEDARRIN2]

I wouldn't recommend expanding a halon system.

I believe it is not manufactured anymore and the only resources available are from companies that go in and reclaim the material when a halon system is removed.

You might be able to retrofit the existing sytem with a non halogenated substance. Contact a fire suppression contractor who deals with these systems and ask them if it can be retrofitted.

 

[FFP1]

Search the internet for Inergen and/or FM200 to find a contractor which will install these gaseous systems. In my experience.......Fike, Kidde, Kidde-Fenwall and Ansul are the most common manufacturers for these systems. Inergen and FM200 are the replacement gaseous agents for Halon. Halon is too expensive and essentially unavailable due to government regulations and government taxation in an attempt to rid the world of Halon. You will probably have to retrofit the Halon system (because the system components for these agents are different than the components used for Halon) or simply install a seperate gaseous system for the unprotected area.

 

[alehman]

I think it would be better to install a current product if the area is separate. If it is an expansion, Halon 1301 is still readily available as a reclaimed product. One of the main problems with Halon now is that the releasing devices have a limited life and are no longer being manufactured.

Dupont FE-25 (NFC-125) is the closest to a "drop-in" replacement for Halon. It can use the same piping system. Nozzles and cylinders would need to be replaced. It cannot be mixed with Halon in the same area.

FM-200 (HFC-227ea) cannot be used with Halon piping.

 

[DM2]

In response to your question "can an existing halon system be expanded to protect other areas"

- It depends: Halon 1301 is still available in the US. In Europe users were required to replace their systems in 2003.

- Hydraulic Calculations - Ansul Halon 1301 system utilized a hydraulic calculation program which was located on their VAX in Marinette WI. Access to this program is no longer available to their distributors. Other manufacturers had programs that were DOS based and could be run on a local computer.

- Hardware - Most manufacturers are no longer making the nozzles for older Halon 1301 systems. Most of the other hardware is still available as it's used in their current "Clean Agent" hardware.

- Replacement - There is a plethera of new agents on the market. Inergen and FM-200/HFC-227 (Great Lakes / Dupont) are the more common.

- Two Types of Agents, "Inert" and "Halocargon" - Inergen is an "Inert Agent" where as "FM-200/HFC-227" is a "Halocarbon" agent. Inert agents require "Pressure Relief Venting" due to the pressures created in the protected space by the release of large volumes of agent held under high pressure in cylinders. Inert agents add about 35% volume to the space and reduce the Oxygen content to a point where combustion can't be sustained. Halocarbon agents on the other hand work by a) providing a cooling effect and b) inhibiting the reaction between a fire and oxygen.

- Disadvantages between agent types - Inert Agent require pressure relief venting which is often an unforeseen cost. Halocarbon agents will experience thermal decomposition with the byproduct being Halon Acids. How much Halon Acid has been the subject of much debate.

- "Drop-In-Replacement" - In reality there isn't such an animal. While there are agents that approximate the amount of agent required the hardware has different installation requirements and the agent has different flow characteristic. Contrary to the post by "alehman" FM-200 can be used with existing Halon pipe, provided your using the Kidde ADS product, which incorporates a cylinder storage and discharge method patented by Great Lakes (which is why i didn't included HFC-227 in this reference).

- Recharge cost - The problem with all of these agents is that no one uses the common denominator which is the volume of the protected space. Most people familiar with Halon 1301 were used to referring to agent quantities in terms of "Lbs". This is still used for Halocarbon agents however of Inert agents the term is "Cubic Feet" as the agent is not a liquid under pressure. In terms of recharge cost, FM-200/HFC-200 is about $0.85 per cubic foot of protected space, Inergen is about $0.28 per cubic foot of protected space, and CO2 is about $0.06 per cubid foot of protected space.

- My recommendation - Find a local distributor of "Kidde", "Chemetron", and "Ansul". These three products have both "Inert" and "Halocarbon" agents as part of their product line. You should be able to get truthful comparisons between your options.

Regards
Dan Marr

http://www.DM2-Inc.com

 

[DavidCR]

In order to have an idea of the feasibility of using the same piping system, I recomend to consider Fike´s Ecaro-25 (HFC-125, Dupont FE25), they have a software to make fast piping calculations, I don´t have it, but with luck a sales engineer would be able to make a run for you. FE-25 has similar vapor pressure and flow caracteristics to halon-1301.

 

[DM2]

There are a lot of manufacturers that attempt to market their products as "Drop-in-Replacements" for Halon 1301. The real issue is to define "Drop-in-Replacement".

At issue is the cylinder size, the pipe size, and the nozzle location. Most Halon 1301 systems had a more liberal nozzle replacement than do the current products. You'll likely find that your existing nozzle locations may force you to re-pipe the system regardless whether it flows in the same pipe or not.

The only system that comes close to addressing the pipe issue is Kidde and Fenwal "Advanced Delivery System". This is a system that stores the nitrogen in a separate cylinder. I've done hydraulic calc's on existing systems with massive pipe runs and it's the only system that has allowed me to utilize the existing system. Additionally this was a selector valve system and these valves impose significant equivalent length to the pipe system that most clean agents, other than one of the Inert agents, can cope with and not experience significant pressure drop.

Best of luck,
Dan Marr.