Expectations of a new engineer 8

[isnata]

Hello,
I am a new EIT and was wondering if I can get advice on how to adapt to work and relate to other engineers. I work for an electrical firm. I always focus on every tasks that I am given but new things always pop up at the end of the day and the work gets carried over to the next day. For most of you that are experienced, how was your experience as a young engineer? Sometimes, I feel I'm not professional enough and don't have enough confident. I know professionalism comes with experience, but how much is expected from a young engineer? Is it only me, or is it a normer phenomenon with young engineers? How fast should you finish a task and is it okay to ask other engineers for help in explaining some concepts. Certain things need more than google's help.

 

[KENAT]

While your mileage may vary a little generally for new hires no it is not "okay to ask other engineers for help in explaining some concepts." - it is expected/essential/mandatory.

"How fast should you finish a task" Thats like asking how long is a piece of string. It will depend on a whole bunch of factors we don't have the information about.

There have been a number of threads relating to what new grads should do, how to be a 'star' yadda yadda yadda so maybe try a search.

My personal variation on new hire/grads etc. asking questions is...

I'd rather them ask a question than make a big mistake or just be stuck doing nothing. However, better is if they've done a little thinking about it, have an idea of what to do and just want to check with me if I agree or have some input etc. Then when I have answered a question it's better if they can extrapolate the answer to subsequent answers/issues where appropriate rather than repeatedly asking the same or similar questions.

Get a note pad (or maybe E equivlant) and take lot's of notes.

Also the classic "you have 2 ears but one mouth - use them in that ratio" has some merit.

If there are written policies/procedures... then familiarize yourself with them.

Finally, if someone goes to the trouble of preparing some kind of introductory training or similar, do them the courtesy of actually going through it and applying it. You have no idea how frustrating it is when you've prepared some material, then someone comes and asks you how to do something that's in the material. Finding things done wrong that were explained in the material is also annoying.

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[DRWeig]

I agree with KENAT's every word above. Nicely stated.

Best to you,

Goober Dave

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[Latexman]

I recommend you obtain a copy of

http://www.amazon.com/Unwritten-Laws-Engineering-Revised-Updated/dp/0791801624

Good luck,
Latexman

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[PSE]

isnata,

New things pop up at the end of the day and work gets carried over - Nature of the business and will happen commonly. Some things may end up being a higher priority than others so ask your supervisor if needed.

How was your experience as a young engineer - Everyone is different. In my first company I enjoyed the work and hated the politics.

Not professional or confident enough - As you indicate it comes with time. Ask questions and always continue to learn. Be aware that "too much" professionalism or confidence can come across to others as appearing arrogant. Interpersonal "soft skills" remain important.

Ok to ask for help - Absolutely! Couple it to learning so you don't have to ask for help repeatedly regarding the same or similar thing. Help and information may come from more than your fellow engineers, people on the shop floor (if there is one) live products on a daily basis and often know more about how they work in reality than the designers. Sources of knowledge can come from many places.

How fast to finish a task - What, you mean you are not done already?

Keep at it.

Bruce Youngman

http://www.dynamicsolutions-mi.com

 

[Ron]

Welcome to engineering (and most other professions for that matter) as a young professional. You are experiencing that which all of us have gone through....apparent sudden direction changes, fickle confidence, not knowing when to ask questions and when not to ask questions.....common stuff. In a few years you'll look back and see a different perspective. Good luck!

KENAT....Well stated.

 

[isnata]

Thanks everyone for your advice

 

[MacGyverS2000]

LPS for Kenat.

Professionalism is all about how you deal with other engineers and clients, how you handle/resolve problems as they arise, etc. How fast you finish a project is only tangentially related... a professional will ask for help when needed, cut corners properly when necessary, and get the project out of the door on time whenever possible. If you're spending hours surfing the web when a project deadline is looming, that's unprofessional.

Confidence and maturity comes from experience, not professionalism. Professionalism is a skill, to be sure, but it's something that needs to be practiced.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[SNORGY]

I honestly don't mind if a young engineer asks me to "explain a concept". It's better than following through on an idea or a work effort that would have been completely different had the unexplained concept been understood.

My expectations from a new grad or EIT reduce to a demonstration of thought and effort. If the thought and effort are there, the results will come.

 

[hokie66]

Like SNORGY, I think I misunderstood the concept. While at first I took KENAT's first sentence to mean it is "expected/essential/mandatory" to know everything, on second reading he is just replacing "okay" with these better words.

 

[oldestguy]

It is never too early to get involved with the local, state and national engineering societies. While you may not learn anything dealing wit your job, you begin to associate with those others in your field as well as some not your type. It really is part of your duty to the profession to support them. In my view, in the long run being active in these groups becomes recognized in office and it shows your drive. Just one more way to round you out.

Are you subscribing to engineering magazines? Do you sign up for professional development seminars?

Buy the way, loyalty goes a long way at becoming a valued employee. That means, it may take staying on late to get the job done. One who watches the clock hurts his future chances to some degree. Who is the first one to show up in the morning?

For consultants, the activity with the societies is way to help bring in work due to your being known around the area.

As to asking questions, I've seen more young guys fall down due to them thinking they knew all about handling something than the guy who was not that sure.

 

[isnata]

@Oldestguy I really appreciate your comment. What type of societies are talking about?

 

[KENAT]

While being willing to put in some extra time/work late may endear you to your bosses it can get taken advantage of - so be a little careful.

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[Medeski]

Good luck on your job. KENAT has some really good advice. Like rotaryworld, I am a bit more Clydesdale than race horse, more methodical than jumping to the right answer. One way of getting more proficient is by slowing down. Especially as a new engineer you'll have a jumping off point, where your task is modifying an existing design. Take the time to understand every symbol, note, line and try to work out the reasoning of why it was designed that way. Usually if you can't figure something out, it will be due to the interaction with something you haven't yet encountered, another piece of the system your unfamiliar with. After a while, you'll be able to look at a drawing and be able to see why it's done that way because you understand the rest of system. This will also prevent mistakes, because hopefully you'll be thinking ahead. So, don't be afraid to ask a whole bunch of questions (but try to reason it out first) because it's better that someone think you're annoying than to make mistake.

Also, maybe try to gather your questions and ask a few at one time, rather than interrupting your coworkers multiple times a day. And pay attention to the materials/standards that your coworkers reference when they answer! Usually, someone will have a laminated sheet of some yellowing chart that they reference, don't be afraid to ask for a copy and keep it your own binder. I think others have given this advice too, but don't turn in your work as soon as you finish. Wait an hour (till the next morning is better) to check over it and you'll be sure to catch something, big or small.

 

[KENAT]

Communication is critical, you may or may not be the sharpest tool in the box but if you communicate clearly; such as asking well phrased & thought out question and then repeating back your understanding of their answer; then you will most likely get along OK.

I say this having got short today with one of our newer engineers who repeatedly didn't quite do what I asked. In his case a lot of it is ESL issues so I probably shouldn't be such a mean begger but he's been here over 6 months and I still haven't worked out how to make sure he understands what I'm asking him to do (I've tried putting it in writing, asking him to repeat back to me his understanding of what he's meant to do...) and I'm afraid that today with everything else going on the frustration came out.

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[MikeHalloran]

Another star for KENAT.

Rotaryworld's last paragraph, no offense intended, scares me a little. ... okay, a lot.

>>I would prefer to grasp things by myself because at the end that's why I am paid for. <<
No. You are paid to (re)learn the material at hand and then apply it with senior engineers looking anxiously over your shoulder.

>>I would ask support only when I feel that it is my duty in order to not provide some works which is not reliable and to some extent creates safety/quality issues. <<
Great, once you have gained experience, but a newbie is not in a position to independently evaluate questions of reliability/ safety/ quality or anything else. Most of them think they are.
Lose your hubris. Roughly half of what you learned in school is wrong. Nobody knows which half.

>>Though normally this should be covered by internal processes and procedures. <<
If policies and procedures could cover the issues and dangers that engineers face, then you could be replaced by a high school kid, or a lawyer.


In any given workplace, there are a thousand ways to die. Your first duty is to not find one of them, for you or for someone else. Acting on ignorance or incompletely understood information can be costly, and not in mere monetary terms.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[KENAT]

"hours of explanations from seniors to Newbies are booked/stolen from project budget hours impacting negatively the business"

Wow, man did your management get you to drink the Cool-Aid.

If companies choose to hire inexperienced staff (and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, we were all inexperienced at some point) then they have to accept that effort (time, and we all know time = money) will have to be put in to support them.

Don't get me wrong, I commend the idea of the new guy trying to be pro-active and not just being spoon fed - that's a big part of what my initial post was about. However, that can be taken too far.

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[IRstuff]

Personal work, is OK, but engineering in the real world is not always a pure book-learning exercise.

I don't think that learning should be a strict feedforward kind of system; there needs to be feedback, to make sure that you are not burning unnecessary calories re-inventing the wheel or hunting snipes. By doing all this work essentially in a vacuum, you may lost out on other things to learn that had a better return on investment. Your mentor should steer and guide you to avoid the pitfalls and rocky shoals, thereby giving you a more optimum path.

Additionally, by doing this all by yourself, you also deprive the senior engineers the potential to broaden their own understanding, since it is often the case that you don't fully understand something until you attempt to explain it to someone else.

TTFN
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[IRstuff]

A colleague of mine does a similar thing and records EVERY assignment, large or small. When his manager asks him to do something additional, he whips out his notebook and politely asks, "Which of these other assignments do you wish to eliminate or postpone?"

So, regardless of the inefficiency question, management does need to be managed, relative to their expectations.

TTFN
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[MikeHalloran]

That "which of these tasks do you wish to eliminate/ wait for" doesn't work at all when the correspondent is the Chairman, and doesn't work often on his minions.


So as to maintain some semblance of a defense when the peanut butter hits the fan, I keep a general chron file, simple text with time and date, noting assignments given, issues raised, assignments completed, who said what to whom, etc.

... and additionally a separate chron file for each project, with somewhat more detail than the general chron file. If there's a paper file for each project, I slip a printout of my project chron file in once in a while.

It seems like a waste of time, but it doesn't take all that much time, and it can save a lot of money in lawyer fees later. ... not to mention that it makes it so much easier to re-understand the project later, in the event of derivative orders or warranty issues.





Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA