Expected donation to customer "retirment fund" 6

[rlee53]

Hypothetically, whats the ethical response for this situation:

A customer employee that hired "consultant A" is being forced into retiring from his position by his company. The customer employee suggests using his influence to steer a final project to "consultant A" during his last days, and that both he and "consultant A" could each profit nicely from the project after customer employee retires.

Customer employee has also recently been reminding "consultant A" how he has "helped" him by giving him work. However, "consultant A" feels he has given exceptional service for a fair price on all his work up till this time.

Accepting the project is obviously NOT even remotely a consideration for "consultant A".

What is the appropriate response from "consultant A"
1) Ignore the customer and hope he goes away
2) Politely but firmly tell him "no, it's not ethical"
3) Report him to the customers corporate engineering department, or HR department. Consider also that there is no proof of the allegation.
4) Both 2 and 3.

I don't know if it matters, but consider that the guy will be gone in a couple of months anyway.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Absent proof, it didn't happen. There's nothing to report.

Contrast that with this case:
------------------------------------------------------
Employee J extorts some consideration from Vendor C in exchange for recommending adoption of their product by J's employer. Which happens.

Some time later, Vendor C goes bankrupt, and is for a time run by a Court. An officer of the Court finds an entry in Vendor C's books, that identifies the bribe as such, and identifies the recipient.

The Court, as it is ethically obligated to do, having found proof, notifies J's employer, who forces him into immediate early retirement.
------------------------------------------------

Back to your hypothetical:
His employer already knows the guy is a sleaze; that's why the retirement is not voluntary. Nothing you could say would be news to them.

The guy knows enough to be dangerous to the employer's interests; that's why they didn't just fire him.

You don't want to get into any kind of contest with the guy; he's probably very good at slinging, er, stuff.

Similarly, you don't want to enter into even an honest relationship with this guy, because of the potential damage to you when things go bad.

Option 1 is all that remains. Just be unavailable.




Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[IRstuff]

I'd go with 1, but Id make sure that I've got all my Pearl Harbor memos in a safe place. Would be nice to have recording of the offer, for use later.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[ChrisAust]

The project will be continuing after the customer employee has gone, right? So, perhaps Consultant A should contact the customer to express an interest in the project, and to ask to discuss it with the customer employee's replacement/superior.
I can't see a problem with accepting the project, it's the 'each profiting nicely' part that is unethical. If Consultant A's price is fair and there are no kickbacks, then the job is legit.

 

[jmw]

Of course, using Mike's example above, the fact that Consultant J might be a proven situation (Consultant J has shopped the employee is one consideration) it would be foolish of the company not to consider that the employee didn't just pick one consultant for dodgy dealing but any and all consultants. That may include consultant A i.e. they may harbour suspicions re other consultants but have no evidence.

Ergo, once employee sleaze has gone they may start to replace all their consultants (maybe and maybe not including consultant J).

Hence, you might, without evidence, seek and off the record discussion with the employee's employer or consultant A may find soon that there is no work for him/her.

So, the easy option is to keep quiet and hope the employee may go quietly which might be unlikely, he may decide to drop any non-co-operating consultants in the doo doo.

This is now not about ethics but survival.

If consultant A decides to have an off the record discussion and once tentatively embarked on the subject listens carefully for signs that this is a not unexpected development, then go for broke. It is possible that the employer may decide that the employee was a sleaze but that it didn't extend throughout his consultants. They may accept that his swan song was to try and corrupt as many consultants as he could.

Employee Sleaze is on the way out. It is doubtful if the employer wants it to get any messier (it may not do his relations with his clients any good) but he does need some way to judge his consultants and if in doubt, cut them out.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[IRstuff]

The basic approach is sleazy, and sleaze has a way of adhering to innocent parties.

This guy has probably done this sort of thing before, so just simple guilt by association could kill your future relationship with the company.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[TheTick]

The man is being compelled to retire. What's behind that?

Chances are others already know what you are just discovering about this man's character and practices. Distance is your friend, more is better. Sleep with the pigs, smell like the pigs.

I agree that a quiet "pass" is the best way to go.

 

[msucog]

seems shady to me. i'd expect that if the "deal" is taken, someone should be expecting to owe a large "favor" some time in the future. if it were me, i'd explain that i would take the job only on the basis that there is no side deal. it might be good to specifically tell them that it would not be appropriate to make such an arrangement. if the consultant knows the employee's boss, it might be wise to discuss it with them. i don't think there's anything wrong with not saying anything but i could see how it might backfire on the consultant if they take the project (even if nothing was given to the employee as mentioned in the deal). me personally, i'd tell the employee that what they suggest isn't appropriate...then, if the consultant takes the project, discuss the whole thing with the employee's boss to make them aware that it was suggested (having this discussion after the employee leaves is better than not at all). this will protect the consultant if the employee ever comes back for the favor or tries to take some sort of position using the deal/bribe as a bargaining chip.

perception of a bribe will be seen as a bribe in everyone else's eyes...bribes are associated with crooks...therefore, the consultant (even if they do nothing wrong) may be perceived to be a crook. and as we all know, perception is reality.

 

[doberdorks]

Accepting the project is obviously NOT even remotely a consideration for "consultant A".

What is the appropriate response from "consultant A"
1) Ignore the customer and hope he goes away
2) Politely but firmly tell him "no, it's not ethical"
3) Report him to the customers corporate engineering department, or HR department. Consider also that there is no proof of the allegation.
4) Both 2 and 3.

I don't know if it matters, but consider that the guy will be gone in a couple of months anyway.

If accepting the work is not remotely a possiblity

"I'm sorry we can't do that work at this time" with as little explanation as possible would be my vote. Don't ignore, and especially don't preach, that way theres no prompting to try to take them down as well...

My thoughts only (free advice is worth what you pay for it).
SLH

 

[rtmote]

Why not number 2 with a clear copy to the corporate engineering department. Be open, be explicit at the earliest opportunity. Passage of time is troublesome. Firmly reject his assistance, detailing the nature of the 'offer' and communication, and say you will only accept the project on due consideration and proper evaluation.


Robert Mote

http://www.motagg.com

 

[DRC1]

You could also have your boss contact this guy's boss and say "Hey Joe tells us you may have a project comming out that we may be able to help ypu with. Would you like us to come over to dicuss it?"
By having your boss contact hois boss, you haven't gone over his head and now the project is out of his control and (hopefully) in a more ethical setting.

 

[rlee53]

Thanks, but unfortunatley, "consultant A" is his own boss, in this hypothetical situation.

 

[ykee]

I'm a little confused: if "consultant A" is the boss, how is he being forced into retirement -- surely there must be someone he reports to?

 

[jmw]

Consultant "A" is obviously a self employed consultant previously employed by the company on some projects and hoping to be employed again.

Sleezy employee has had the past opportunities to deliver some of the contracts and this time seeks to defraud the company with consultant "A's" co-operation but "A" doesn't want to get burned.
"A" may get burned simply by past association and not get any more contracts no matter whether from sleazy employee or anyone else unless "A" can distance himself.
Unlike the court system where "innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt" apples, this is a case where guilt by association may be the rule.

What to do? Nothing is not an option unless "A" doesn't expect any more work from the company. It depends on what the company knows, what it thinks it knows, what it suspects or what it feels might be a reasonable expectation.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[rlee53]

After considering the advice from others, "consultant A" chose option 2, and decided to not give it any more worry. He said thanks for all the thoughtful replies to the hypothetical situation.

Later, customer said he was just kidding.

 

[jmw]

Well, he would, wouldn't he.

"..."consultant A" feels he has given exceptional service for a fair price on all his work up till this time.

This leads one to expect that Consultant "A" ought to get any future business that is going with this company, so do come back and tell us if consultant "A" later discovers that for some reason, once sleaze has gone, he no longer gets any work from the company when he expected that he should.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
(Edmund Burke)

Doing, effectively, nothing, may not be the best thing for consultant "A".

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com