Exporting and building machine in china 3

[Ele-HAzloc]

Hi ,

I am working for a company who build industrial machines in bagging and palletizing field.

We want to sell machine for classified products in China, organic dust mostly (flour, sugar, corn starch....). We are planning to have our machine build in China directly and the design will be based on European standard. So my questions are :

Requirement for EX components (Electrics, pneumatics and mechanical) :
Since components will be bought in China directly I assume that for the one that needs to be in classified zone we will need the Ex-Certification and CCC and it will be easy to find
For all ATEX components may I find is equivalent?
For component in unclassified zone they just need to be CCC?

Requirements for the machine itself :
As I understand the GB/T is close to IEC standard and is recommended guidelines and not mandatory.
When the machine is installed at the customer plan does it needs to be inspected? If yes by whom?
Who is responsible to comply with standard and regulation, the customer like in the US or the manufacturer like in Europe?
Is there any other special requirement needed?

Thanks for your help,

 

[BrianPetersen]

No (and I mean ZE-RO) experience with dust classification and explosivity hazards but I have had customers build equipment of other types (automated assembly) here (Canada) for it to be operated in a production plant in China, and I've had customers have equipment built in China to be installed here (because they thought they would be saving money by doing so).

The customers of mine who build equipment here with the intention of operating and running it in China are doing so because the builders here know the worldwide standards, and the various components necessary to achieve compliance are readily available here.

Having equipment built in China with the intention of running it here (i.e. having the equipment built to actual compliance with international standards) has been a nightmare, and I have yet to encounter an exception. Safety-related components often aren't available there (some of it had to be bought in Canada, shipped there for integration into the equipment, and shipped back once it was constructed). Components and wiring with forged compliance markings abound. If there is any expertise over there with building safety-related systems, I haven't run across it. Short-cuts abound. Failure to do even the most basic FMEA that would reveal a hazard that is obvious to us, is par for the course.

The customers of mine who have a plant in China, build the equipment completely here, and have all relevant documentation and inspections completed here as if the equipment was to be operated here (with the exception of voltage/frequency), and just ship it complete so that the only thing needed there is to plug in the electrical and compressed air. And they have a representative there who is from here, to supervise to make sure the production plant doesn't take short-cuts. (This is a company with a worldwide footprint)

As far as I've been able to tell, no one cares about compliance with standards. In other words ... it's on you, but there's no one checking.

If you design the machine as if it were to be CE-marked, specify every detail of your components and follow up very attentively to any substitutions of components or materials.

For what it's worth, the Chinese builders and integrators that I have dealt with (Chinese-built machine installed in Canada) have been quite willing to learn ... good people ... they just don't have experience.

 

[r13]

A battery was supposedly to be built in China, and used for a local powerplant project. The Chines friend of mine went abroad to inspect and evaluate the capability of the builder. Upon return from the trip, he convinced the American owner to ship an US made unit instead. The reasons are the same as Brian pointed out above.

 

[Ele-HAzloc]

Hi,

Thank you for your answers. To build the machine in China or not is not really my main concern. My question was more about is if i want to install my machine in China what certification did my electrical, pneumatic and mechanical bears for each different classified zone, do I need to have a third party inspect my machine or it is more a self-declaration process like in Europe... Those questions will remain the same if I build the machine within the US or in China.

Thanks for your help,

 

[r13]

How about requiring ISO certification for each component?

 

[AlexBrowne44]

Hi,

Not sure if you ever got a solid answer or not. But, for machines built inside or being imported to China your equipment doesn't sound like it falls into any of the 17 categories requiring Ex CCC. That being said. There is a good chance that the individual components installed on the machine will need to have an accompanying Ex CCC certificate, which is very difficult to find at the moment.

I am working on a system design pretty close to what your machine does and still have a few components that may need to have an existing IECEx cert converted for Ex CCC.

As for your whole machine. If the AHJ wants to have it comply with "A" standard, GB eval can be done at the machine level, Ex CCC cannot.

Hope that helps

 

[Ele-HAzloc]

Thank you for sharing your experience it is appreciated. I am quite disappointed that EX CCC seems hard to find. From what I understand a third party certification of the whole machine is not needed except if asked by the customer. Do you know if per G standard there is documentation that you need to give to the customer, AHJ or Chinese authority ex: Zoning, EX ccc certificate, IECex or ATEX conversion to EX ccc certificate, etc...)?

 

[AlexBrowne44]

You are correct. Third party certification is only required if a customer asked for what "standard" the machine was built to. The Chinese authority would be looking for Ex CCC now that the Oct 1st deadline has passed. I will find out in the coming weeks if there is anything else required.

I can tell you I was able to find Ex CCC JBs, cable glands, Solenoids, and mechanical prox switches. So there is hope!

 

[Ele-HAzloc]

Hi @AlexBrowne44,
Did you learn anything new from your recent experience in China?
Thanks

 

[AlexBrowne44]

@RioSam

Yes, I have learned a number of things during this process. Feel free to ask specific questions. But, in general. At machine level, there isn't a category that the machine falls into requiring Ex-CCC. You can have a certifying body inspect and write report to eval of GB standard. This has yet to be asked of us during installation.

Where possible, NEPSI/CQST/Ex-CCC components should be use. same as before Ex-CCC was instituted.

I would imagine your machine already has an ATEX COC? This should be enough for the local inspector to be okay with the installation. The customer should setup the inspection.

Hope this helps

 

[dik]

and in my limited experience, great people to work with... some of the best.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik