Failed the PE Again...Any Other Job Ideas For an EIT? 16

[joestar3]

Hello,

Well, results for the PE Exam were posted yesterday (for Texas anyway), and I've failed it for the fourth time in a row (by one question, same as the last time I took it). I blame myself for not studying enough (although our heavy workload has been at least partly to blame, and the lack of pure design work that gets sent my way).

But now I'm pretty much screwed, since the next time I can take it is in October 2011, and I'll have to take the new 16 hour exam. Meanwhile, at least one of my coworkers will be taking the exam and will most likely pass, further marginalizing my standing in the office.

Anyway, getting to the point; between this and other factors (such as the potential liability vs. salary issue) I'm getting disillusioned and bitter about my job, and I'm wondering if I'm just not cut out for this. I guess my question is whether anyone has any ideas about jobs that people with engineering training could do, or jobs that you've heard of that are conducive to a switch from engineering. I appreciate any input; thank you!

 

[Mr168]

First thing to do would be to step back, wait until the test results have blown over, and then realize that a lot of people have taken the PE exam 4x or more before passing. You've got the test taking experience, but need to put forth the effort to do the proper planning so you KNOW you'll pass on test day.


Depending on your field, there are tons of jobs out there that do not require a PE. You can also look at transitioning to another area of engineering in an exempt industry.

 

[controlnovice]

Getting your PE will not guarantee more pay, so just remove that little carrot.

What it may do for you, beside the personal achievement, is open more doors for you when you are looking for another job.

______________________________________________________________________________
This is normally the space where people post something insightful.

 

[steellion]

If you're getting disillusioned with engineering, maybe project management would better suit you? Our PM's don't do any of their own engineering, but having knowledge of how the building design process works and how a building comes together is a useful trait for a PM (without number crunching).

I'd encourage you to still keeping trucking and try to get your P.E., even if you want to move away from engineering. It will give you built-in respect when dealing with clients, and it helps in job search/advancement.

Maybe try the Civil PE instead of the Structural? The Civil PE is staying as an 8 hr test.

 

[msquared48]

Have you tried going to the state board and reviewing your exam grading results?

Two things can come of this:

1. You will see where you went wrong, pointing you in the area(s) you need to study; and

2. Heaven be, but grading mistakes are made, even by engineering professionals. You may find grounds for an appeal to the board.

In either event, the trip can't hurt.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask

 

[Twoballcane]

Can you go into industry, especially defense? If your background is structure, maybe you can transfer your knowledge base to ships, subs, airplanes, missiles, ...etc. You don't need a PE to do the work.

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[slickdeals]

I second Mike's opinion. If you only failed by one question, it may be worth asking for a re-evaluation.

Don't lose heart. Failing the PE exam does not necessarily mean you are a bad engineer, it could mean that you are a bad test taker.

The test is geared toward solving problems quickly, understanding and applying first principles and knowing the footnotes in various codes (seriously!!). I took the exam back in April and my advice is to prepare for atleast 3 months. Know your AASHTO (I had a whole chunk of problems on Bridge) and I only design buildings. I can't emphasize how knowing to work around and look up bridge stuff will mean the difference between passing or failing the exam.

Godspeed.

 

[trey25624]

I failed it once, and have known a few people that failed it 4 plus times. no shame in it, nothing to hang your head about. i think you should keep taking it until you pass, i know it's hard to think about now, but it will be worth it in the long run. Seems like you're concerned about the short term implications of passing. Although i don't know your current work situation, i doubt it will do much of anything for you in the short term. I don't think anything really changed for me when i passed. i just started sealing drawings and got a little monetary reward from my company.
I would suggest doing what i did, and taking a PE prep class (if you haven't already). it was hard for me to bite the bullet and sign up, but it was worth it. if nothing else it forces you to focus on studying. and by your own admission you didn't study enough. don't do the same thing expecting the differnet results.
Also if your workload is getting in the way, sit down and tell youre employer you need to focus on the PE exam and can only work a certain number of hours a week if possible.
final thought... if you're looking for a new job in this economy... good luck. i would focus on passing the test, exercise some patience, and once you pass in Ocotber reevaluate your situation. 6 months is nothing. At that time having your PE will be useful in making a job transition to something different. in the mean time talk to your boss and discuss what your goals are and what their goals are for you. it could help to improve your current situation.

 

[B16A2]

Even if you did pass after 4 tries, would you feel you know enough ethically to stamp a design? I mean 4 times....to me that's starting to say somethings deeply wrong...either motivation or technical aptitude.

 

[joestar3]

Thank you everyone for your replies (I'd respond individually but I don't want to clutter the thread, hah). I feel a lot better reading them, so thank you.

I am going to see about appealing or having them recheck my exam form. If that doesn't work, I'm going to try going out of state for the October exam (since I've got to wait a year to take it again in Texas).

I also need to re-evaluate my study habits and come up with something better; I only wish there were better/more representative practice questions for the bridge/AASHTO stuff out there, because I can tell you that's one of the areas I got hammered.

Once again, thank you all for your input!

 

[joestar3]

"Deeply wrong" huh... makes me sound like a criminal, heh.

 

[rbulsara]

Do not lose heart, it is not end of the world.

Regarding the study habits, I have an opinion based on my own experience (long time ago). I believe there is a definite % or number of questions per a subtopic or subject even within a discipline, that will appear in an exam. I am not a structural engineer, but in electrical there is power, electronics, industrial electronics , etc. Plus every discipline have something about economics and codes. Structural should have similar subdivisions.

I would choose only 2 or 3 subtopics you are comfortable with and which will provide you adequate number of problems to solve to make the grade, and work hard at those only, instead of trying to prepare for too many subtopics. Plus economics and codes should be relatively easy.

Also if the exam contains multiple choices, make sure you allow last 5-6 minutes just to go through all the ones that could not get to (leave out hard ones for this) and pick only one (from a, b, c, or d etc) of the answer for all of those. That way you have a chance to get 20 or 25% of them right. I do not believe there is any penalty for wrong answers.

Remember the goal is to pass the exam, not to show what area you are good at.

Rafiq Bulsara

http://www.srengineersct.com

 

[B16A2]

If you take it that way I think you need to step back and reevaluate where you are. You're approaching this all wrong....this test should be somewhat trivial for someone who's ready to be responsible for other people's lives. You eluded to the fact you dont get great technical exposure....maybe you should start fixing that first, then retake it when you're really ready. Ask your employer for more design work.

 

[Contrivers]

If you are just over it, try and find a job in the government or an industry exempt field, most defense or aerospace companies hire engineers without PE's. They do have a need for structural engineers, keep in mind you will likely be a project guy reviewing structural drawings and scheduling projects keeping an eye on the budget and be involved in the construction portion while they farm out the design work to an A&E company.

If you are at an A&E firm I can certainly understand the pressure you are under to pass the PE. I have seen what happens to those who dont, they get pushed aside and end up designing parking lots and sidewalks or fighting tooth and nail to get into project management.

If the test was administered by the NCEES you can request they re-score your test but to my knowledge this has NEVER resulted in change from fail to pass. I took the electrical PE in Florida this last April, so it may be different in Texas or different for the structural test.

If it was me, I would take it again. Put in the time and study, buy all the PPI2PASS products, take a good prep class, testmasters and schoolorPE both have classes with a guarantee you will pass, work as many problems as possible, get the NCEES practice exam and again put in the time.

I work with two guys that didn't pass their PE until the 5th time, they get ribbed about it all the time but they are no less competent than those that passed it the first time. I don't know your study routine or how you have been preparing, if you have a nagging wife and 12 kids or if you just freak out on tests, but I think almost any engineer can pass the PE with the proper preparation so don't give up.

 

[apsix]

I would take B16A2's advice with a pinch of salt.

It took me 2 attempts to pass a similar exam with the IStructE. I didn't find it trivial.
It's often not a knowledge problem but more about exam technique and time management.

As advised above, take a prep class.

 

[msquared48]

I don't do well with blood tests... especially mine.

Others are OK.

Another thought is... have you had problems in the past with tests? Some people just don't know how to take tests, or get too upset, affecting their performance.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask

 

[JStephen]

I'm not even sure what the tests are like any more. I took mine back in 1998, I think.

One thing that was very irritating was that there was very little on the tests that pertained to my work. So basically, I had to go study stuff I hadn't used since college, and will never use again, and take a test over that, just to get the right to seal unrelated material. It's kind like making a brain surgeon take a plumbing quiz before he can practice. Or vice versa. In any case, you should have a pretty good idea of your abilities regardless of the test results.

I haven't researched it, but it seems like some states won't let you take the exams unless you live there- they expect you to get registered in your home state first- so watch for that if you look out of state.

 

[TheTick]

Per Dilbert: It takes years of education and experience to be an engineer, but almost none to be an engineer's boss.

 

[atlengpe]

"I'm getting disillusioned and bitter about my job, and I'm wondering if I'm just not cut out for this"

Most experienced engineers ask the opposite: "Is engineering cut out for ME?".

For me, after having passed my PE in December, gone into a completely different profession working for myself (both by force but also by passion), I'm really starting to look back on my EIT years in hindsight and really it all boils down to the people and who is (if any, most likely not) is mentoring you.

When a young engineer says "I'm not cut out for this" that tells me his boss isn't encouraging to you. Shame on him.

 

[SpecialEddie]

atlengpe,

That is one of the most ridiculous things I have heard in a long time. I don't know the OP's situation, but seriously, failing the PE exam 4 times? C'mon, something is wrong. Did you notice that his discipline is "structural"? What if he lives in one of those states where being a full-fledged structural engineer requires passing the Civil PE, Structural I, Structural II, AND state-specific Structural III exams. To be a licensed CE in CA, you must also pass additional state specific seismic AND surveying exams. If the OP cannot even pass the Civil PE exam, which MANY people I know personally have passed without even studying, how do you expect him to pass the SEI, SEII, and SEIII exams? It is time for the OP to look deep within himself and question if, in fact, he is cut out to be a structural engineer. Once again, this is not a cut-down of the original OP, because I do know of firms where their engineers are working 60-70 hours per week. Obviously, with this kind of schedule, there isn't enough time to study for anything, let alone find time to take care of their own personal affairs. So, I am well-aware that there are a multitude of "excuses" that one can legitimately use to explaining failing the PE exam. And I do know, as someone previously posted, people who needed 4 or 5 times to pass the PE exam who are just as good an engineer in in their respective disciplines as anyone else out there, including you and me. But we are responsible for ourselves, so to blame the OP's employer for lack of sufficient mentoring is not only ridiculous, it is unfair. You just passed the PE exam, so you know as well as I do that professional experience has little to do with success in passing as book studying and test-taking preparation does.

You state in your post, "For me, after having passed my PE in December, gone into a completely different profession working for myself (both by force but also by passion), I'm really starting to look back on my EIT years in hindsight and really it all boils down to the people and who is (if any, most likely not) is mentoring you. When a young engineer says "I'm not cut out for this" that tells me his boss isn't encouraging to you. Shame on him."

The work place not elementary school. Since when is a young engineer's supervisor also supposed to double as his personal cheerleader? Young engineers need to understand that they are responsible for themselves and their own destiny within the engineering profession.

Shame on you...