Fair Compensation for SE? 16

[STrctPono]

Hi all,

I've been getting a lot of push-back from my wife at home concerning my job's work culture and her desire to move States. I am pushing hard not to move. I wanted to provide some information and get some feedback from you folks because I am completely unfamiliar with how my job's compensation stacks up to other jobs around the country. Am I spoiled? If I leave my State will I end up working for the DOT somewhere else?

My only Engineering job that I have ever had is my current one and I started it right out of Graduate School (Masters) 7 years ago.

I am a licensed Structural Engineer working for a small (12 Engineers 3 Drafters) private consulting engineering firm that gets the majority of its contracts through the State DOT (either directly or indirectly). We do all sorts of design related to transportation infrastructure but bridge design is our bread and butter.

The State I work in has a technically inept DOT that does hardly any of its own design work and relies on private consultants to provide most of those services.

The job has exposed me to many different projects (many exciting and high exposure). All very challenging.

The summary of my 2019 work year and compensation is as follows:

-Worked a total of 818 Overtime Hours
-Gross Pay = $176,171.00 (This includes straight OT pay, Company Truck, Contribution to Whole Life Insurance policy, and End of Year Bonus)
EDIT -Additional $14,094.00 contributed to Profit Sharing Retirement Savings Account (Not reflected on my W-2 which is why I didn't include it above).
-In addition my company pays 100% of all health insurance premiums (I have a family plan)
-15 days of PTO
-Company pays for any and all engineering books, reference materials, or continuing education I want
-Approx. 1 Engineering related golf tournament each year
-Trip to World of Concrete or International Bridge Conference (or equivalent) every other year
-Attendance to SEA banquet which usually includes 2 night hotel stay every other year

I don't have to do any of my own drafting. I spend 70% of my time doing design work and 30% of my time doing Finite Element Analysis work and/or Bridge Load Ratings. I never work with Architects. If our contract is not directly with the DOT then either the Civil Engineer or the Contractor (Design-Build) is our client.

Benefits:
-I like the work that I do.
-Good pay
-Good benefits
-Get paid for overtime (straight hourly pay)
-Get a pay raise every year
-Flexibility with my daily schedule (I can take a few hours off here and there to go to my kids school performance, or take care of a family matter, or even bring in a sick child to work with me if needed)
-Challenging and exciting work projects
-Not expected by my boss to bring in jobs for the company at this point in my career
-Live in paradise. Great place to raise kids.
-20 minute commute time

Downfalls:
-Work a lot of overtime. Office has a "work first" culture. I personally witnessed my coworker's marriage and family life deteriorate over the past few years due to his workaholic lifestyle.
-My boss is king and pretty much has final say on all matters
-Boss has an expectation of perfection, hates excuses, and has a tendency to yell and belittle people (however the last part has gotten a lot better in the past 3 or so years)
-Very steep learning curve. Especially related to FEA, no one in the office helps with analysis and you pretty much have to teach yourself everything.
-Taking vacation days is frowned upon but is allowed. I'm probably one of the few people in the office that utilizes all the days each year.
-High cost of living (consistently ranked in top 3 cities in the country). Expensive place to raise kids.
-Due to the high work load and my poor time management, I regularly pull all-nighters trying to get projects out by the deadline.

I was hoping to get some of your guys' work experiences and what you are compensated and how you like your job. Feel free to share. Thanks.

Thanks!

 

[MR_E30]

I'll have to echo a few others in this thread. Work isn't everything.

Seems like you make a decent living, especially when you simply throw out the 176,000 number (I have seen the breakdown).

However, no amount of money would ever make me work 800+ overtime hours in a single year. This is completely leaving aside the taking of drugs (legal or otherwise) to get the job done. That is insanity to me (I wholly realize that I am not you).

To me, family, and freedom (in one particular sub-category: financial freedom) come long before anything else. I honestly could give a hoot about extending my engineering prowess to a level that puts me in the front of the room.

The extra 15-20 hours of time per week that I am not devoting to the company allows me to work on myself. It allows me to solidify my life at home. It allows me to network with business partners and friends. It allows me to continue acquiring real estate, so that I make roughly 60% as much as you do, from just real estate alone, as you do in an entire year. The kicker? I only 'work' on my rentals for 2-4 hours PER MONTH. I would never have been able to focus on myself to the required level had I been working as hard as you do for someone else.

Now, I will never be the world's most diverse or educated engineer with my workstyle (and maybe that is paramount to you), but by golly 12+ vacations a year and routine 36-40 hour work weeks ain't bad.

 

[AaronMcD]

800 hours is a 2 week vacation almost every month.

http://www.hellodwell.design

 

[ozPE]

A lot of people would be willing to be in your position /pay rate at your experience.
I can only suggest one thing, since you seem to want more free time, start your own consulting company, but not in HI, even if you are a one man show in bigger cities you could charge $1000 a day, I know from my experience in NYC. You may not be busy every day of the month but that is what you want. with 15 days of work you would be looking at the same gross you are making now, including the benefits you noted, plus you have the rest of the month to your self. One draw back of this set up is that if you go alone you can not grow. I have been thru that in NYC as a PE and now in London, I am focused on growing and partnering with other engineers. SE goes a long way. There is a pattern in all the big companies, almost all of them are 2 or 3 at least partners. It is a parabolic growth when you have partners.

 

[STrctPono]

Thank you all for the responses. I definitely got a lot of good information.... even more than I was hoping for.

BridgeSmith... thank you especially for your input.

jrw501, I would like to talk more with you. I'm new to this forum and didn't see a way to send messages privately. I'll keep looking unless there is some way I can send you my email without posting it publicly.

My life is not all doom and gloom, which some of you would believe it to be. I do work a lot of overtime, but I usually get to work several hours before everyone else so I can put in some early morning OT and get work done before people start bothering me with their problems. I do try and leave work at a reasonable time seeing as I've frontloaded my mornings. This allows me to still have dinner with my family, play, do homework, and bedtime routine. On the weekends, I really really try not to go into work. My kids are at the age where I am taking them to the beach, surfing, skatepark, dirtbiking, club sports, hiking... etc. active things that we love. I guess my philosophy is "work hard play hard". Plus, I get warm weather year round which is a huge plus for me cause I hate the cold.

My life is far from perfect and my work schedule could be more ideal but I try to think about how it could be a lot worse too and I may potentially be giving up a good thing while the going is good. A very serious conversation is coming with my wife and I have taken everything you guys said into consideration.

Thanks again for sharing your stories!

 

[BridgeSmith]

... I hate the cold

Well, that eliminates anywhere near me. We haven't hit 50 degrees in several weeks. The Gulf Coast could still be an option for you. I guess southern California would be warm enough, too, but you probably wouldn't do any better financially, and your commute would undoubtedly be longer.

I live on the outskirts of the city, nearly on the opposite side from where I work, and my commute is 8 miles and takes 10 minutes.

Rod Smith, P.E., The artist formerly known as HotRod10

 

[spieng89]

If you're popping adderall you should quit and find a new job even if you stay in HI

 

[bookowski]

In defense of your boss he most likely gave 99% of his energy and life to build this operation and insisting on perfection is likely part of how he did it. Assuming he's not wrapping a mouse cord around anyone's neck I'd imagine you guys can shrug it off considering your pay and perks. If you're working 60 hours then i'd imagine he's doing 80 and not that much better off than you.

I'm not as appalled by your Adderall and hours. To each his own and it sounds like you're enjoying it.

At the end of the day though the wives usually win. They don't come at you hard like your boss but like the steady work of the tides they'll slowly wear you down until you give in so best bet may be to cave to her wishes now to get a jump on setting up your new situation.

 

[KootK]

I guess my philosophy is "work hard play hard".

That's really the only way to make a go of it, particularly in the private sector.

Piggybacking off of bookowski's comments, is there any chance you could just take over this enterprise via succession and pass the adderall mantle to your minions? It does sound as though your boss had/has the right formula. It also sounds as though you're making that same formula work for you +/- a little divorce scare hear and there. Given how well compensated your are, I feel confident that your boss likes what you've been doing.

 

[MTNClimber]

My life is not all doom and gloom, which some of you would believe it to be.

A very serious conversation is coming with my wife.

I think the very serious conversation is the impending doom that I'd be worried about.

It's tough to get a read on your home life since you say things aren't that bad but it sounds like your wife may have a different opinion. Everyone has different expectations when it comes to work/life balance. If I were you, I would make sure that your family and your health come before your professional needs. There isn't a job out there, no matter how much it fulfills my professional needs, that I would want to keep even though its causing major stress on my wife. You could also be driving yourself into the ground without knowing it, especially on adderall. How long can you work like that before it has a negative impact on you? One of my previous bosses told me that he worked like a maniac in his 30's and ended up getting chest pains. Went to the doctor and found out he was very close to having a heart attack. He still works like a maniac but also exercises like one too. Not sure how he had any time for his family but I think that showed in other ways when you rarely met them.

Leaving paradise is hard. I'm actually in the middle of that dilemma but for opposite reasons (work isn't satisfying). We've found that it was necessary to leave. We're just going to do everything in our power to come back to paradise as much as life allows us.

Best of luck to you. I hope you find a good balance and don't forget to take care of yourself.

 

[r13]

Actually there shouldn't be a dilemma to anybody. Do you value yourself higher than your family, or the other wat around. The answer is there for an honest person.

 

[STrctPono]

It's tough to get a read on your home life since you say things aren't that bad but it sounds like your wife may have a different opinion.

My wife's biggest complaint is that we have no family out here. We're completely on our own. If we have a sick kid and neither of us can take the day off, we can't just call up a grandparent to come save the day. I love my wife completely, she's a phenomenal mother, but she has a very skewed perception of reality.... her rationalization for things is much more visceral than mine. She lived in PHX (cheap cheap) before moving here so doesn't understand why you can't buy a 4,000 sqft home on a teacher's income in our city. Therefore, any problems that we have are either wholly or partly blamed on where we live. My belief is that even if my work life were perfectly ideal, she would still want to move.

Actually there shouldn't be a dilemma to anybody. Do you value yourself higher than your family, or the other way around. The answer is there for an honest person.

That question can be interpreted differently depending on who you are asking

To some, they may say... "If you value yourself higher then you'll do what you love even if your wife isn't happy"
To others, they may say.... "If you value yourself higher then you'll stop working so much because it's going to kill you"
Even others might say..... "If you value your family higher then you'll stop working so much so you can spend more time with them"
And lastly some might say..... "If you value your family higher then you'll continue to financially support them with private school, large life insurance payouts, and fully stocked 529 plans."

is there any chance you could just take over this enterprise via succession and pass the adderall mantle to your minions? It does sound as though your boss had/has the right formula. It also sounds as though you're making that same formula work for you +/- a little divorce scare hear and there. Given how well compensated your are, I feel confident that your boss likes what you've been doing.

There is a possibility that I could inherit the business one day but not for awhile. Our VP is late 40's I'm mid 30's. There's no one between us in age. With that being said, I don't think I want the job. I'm very different than everyone I work with (mainly because I'm the only non-local) we don't share the same values and I'm pretty sure that my boss never stops working. I have never met anybody in my life that owns their own business that either isn't a workaholic or has constant financial worries/stress. That's why I previously mentioned that the "going is good". I get paid well and don't have to worry about the business side of the business. I get to perform pure technical Engineering. I have however developed good relationships with Civil Engineers over the years that could produce fruitful contracts in the future, that sort of thing is not really my forte. My feeling is that when my boss retires (not sure if that will ever happen since I don't think he will know what to do with himself) the company will lose a lot of credibility and thus a lot of work.

In defense of your boss he most likely gave 99% of his energy and life to build this operation and insisting on perfection is likely part of how he did it. Assuming he's not wrapping a mouse cord around anyone's neck I'd imagine you guys can shrug it off considering your pay and perks. If you're working 60 hours then i'd imagine he's doing 80 and not that much better off than you.

I'm not as appalled by your Adderall and hours. To each his own and it sounds like you're enjoying it.

At the end of the day though the wives usually win. They don't come at you hard like your boss but like the steady work of the tides they'll slowly wear you down until you give in so best bet may be to cave to her wishes now to get a jump on setting up your new situation.

I appreciate this assessment. Especially the part about the wives. And yes, everyone in the office has grown very thick skin and understands that it's just "Boss being Boss." He's a bit quirky (something that he fully understands) but also has an uncanny ability to get people to like him. He prides himself on honor. He's gregarious and typically enjoys dominating conversations or discussions during meetings. (He's well aware that he's normally the smartest person in the room.) Yet, in some ways he seems to lack total basic social etiquette.

My father-in-law once told me something in the past. He said: "You shouldn't be worried if your employer is hard on you and expects a lot from you, you should be worried when your employer stops paying attention to you because then that means they've given up on you."

 

[r13]

Honestly speaking, I am a person that values myself above my family in many ways.

I brought my wife to state, she has no relative here, and misses her friends and family quite often. Due to work, more than a quarter of my service life was spent separately from my family (means live in two different cities), the least was 3 hours drive, the longest was 10 hours non-stop. I only got to go back home 1 - 3 months a time for a weekend stay. Did she complain? Yes, she did, but to my deft ears. However, we are going to see our 40 years anniversary this year, not necessarily happily, but still hanging together.

[ADD] My point is if you value yourself higher than others, then make your own choice, and manage everything else later, shall anything happens.

 

[jrw501]

STrctPono, I don't think there's a way to direct message on this site, but I created a twitter handle (@eng_jrw) if you want to DM.

 

[Iasonasx]

The money sounds really good BUT, being belittled and all that sounds like you should consider other places. You're doing a legitimate job and you should set certain red lines to yourself. Being an engineer should not be equivalent to prostituting yourself. I had people yell and try to belittle me when I was a young professional (with a lot more qualifications than my boss by the way) and I left immediately. The numbers though are pretty good there where you are my friend.