FE/PE Exam Advice 5

[waskillywabbit]

I've read numerous threads/posts on the subject and perhaps even started a similar one before...but I was wondering just how hard it would be for me to obtain my PE.

I am soon to be 37 years old, wife, two pre-school boys and generally work a 50 hour work week, sometimes more, sometimes less. I like my life, but I'd like more for my career and just to better myself. I only have 3 years experience working at the company below and we have a PE who could supervise my work. Do they have to be in the same discipline? I'd like to do this myself and pay for it myself, just for self motivation I guess.

Problem is, like an idiot I never took the FE exam out of college when it was encouraged but not required, went to another vocation so I didnt' think I needed it, anyway, now I am considering going this route. I've looked at an FE review manual that I have and there is a lot of information in there to relearn for a not-so-young brain. 10 year ago, no problem, I woulda jumped on it...but now I have my reservations and applaud anyone over 30 who has accomplished it...

I guess for me personally it all just boils down to personal motivation to pass the tests, but my brain doesn't just rattle off information like it did 15 years ago when I was in college, so in all honesty I'm a bit frightened that such an undertaking would just become overwhelming and discouraging in the end.

Anyone care to share their experience and advice?

Thanks.

Brian
Pressure Vessels and Autoclave Systems

http://www.mcabeeconstruction.com

The above comments/opinions are solely my own and not those of McAbee Construction.

 

[weh3]

I did both FE and PE, starting fourteen years after college. You have to set aside lunch hours and Saturday mornings for working problems.

Get the PPI-2-Pass books and work every problem you have time for, starting with Math 101.

Get a sample exam and work every problem over and over until you can work them all correctly in your sleep.

The biggest hurdle was getting the paperwork together for the application process. Start now.

William, PE

 

[EddyC]

I took the FE at age 37 and the PE at age 38 (passed). The key to success for me was the 2 preparatory classes that I took.

 

[metengr]

waskillywabbit;
Yes, you can take and pass both exams together IF you have the desire. I took both and passed even after 20 years out of school because they finally got around to having discipline specific national PE exams. The key is to set aside the study time and maintain perseverance. I completely understand family commitments and distractions that can occur in life.

 

[jpankask]

I took the FE in college so I can't speak as to relearning all that material. However, when I was studying for the PE exam, I was suprised at how much material came back to me after several years of non-use. If you truly learned the material in college, I would bet a lot of it will come back to you when you start studying...it will probably amaze you how much.

You are in for a long haul, taking both the FE and PE exams. As mentioned, you will have to spend a lot of time studying. I studied at lunch and for a couple hours after work most days. Almost every Saturday I spent at least 5 hours studying. It is a big effort not only for you but also your wife and children. You should discuss this with her because her support will be critical to your success. One more thing, even if you feel like you have no time to spare because you should be studying, you need to occasionally take a day off and spend the whole day with your family, maybe an overnight trip or a day at the zoo. Anything to recharge your batteries and let your family know how much you appreciate them.

Most states will allow some of your engineering experience to NOT be directly under the direction of another PE, provided you still have the required 3-5 PE references. In order for this experience to count, you will need to fill out another form that explains why you did not work under a PE (usually your company falls under the industrial exemption or no PE's work at your company).

Good luck! It is hard work and you will wonder at times if it's worth it...but after you have that license, you'll be glad you did it.

 

[jakin]

Waskillywabbit, I had to take both FE and PE about 25 years after college because I came from another country where I had been a registered engineer. In my opinion, "review manuals" should not be seen as study material, but only for review AFTER you have studied. One mistake many make is to depend solely on them. Books that treat fundamentals, available in nearby university libraries, would be the study material to use. I think you should take both exams at the same time. Also, I would strongly advise beginning studying, for example, in January for an October exam. If you pace yourself well enough, there shouldn't be any disruption in your personal life, at least until close to the exams. Good luck.

 

[SmithsJohn2]

Hi weh3,

What is PPI-2-Pass books? I am going to take the FE exam coming Oct. Thanks for recommend some good books.

 

[weh3]

Go to ppi2pass.com as a starting point. I actually found the EE reference manual for about US$85 somewhere else. Look around.

William

 

[monkeydog]

waskillywabbit,
In some states, your experience alone will allow you to bypass the FE exam, you may want to check that out with your state.

I passed the PE exam at age 49, it was not the first try, my two biggest problems were not studying enough, and not studying enough. Classes are good, just don't let that be your main focus for study.

I know of two other engineers at work that took the test in their 30's and passed. One of them set a good example. He spent EVERY lunch break studing, it was to the point you knew NOT TO bug him at lunch.

There are plenty of threads on this website that goes over the best study materials ect. They all break-down to Lindeburg, and what you are familiar using.

The Passing Zone

http://www.thepassingzone.com/

is another good website, but the pace is quick, you might give it a try just for the flavor of what is need to study.

 

[zdas04]

This is a great thread. I thought I was alone in waiting 12 years to take the FE and 8 more years to take the PE. As the folks above have said, it takes considerable self-discipline and effort. I treated study like any other work task and checked every Saturday night whether I'd met my week's goals, if not then I spent Sunday catching up.

I've never regretted the time, cost, or effort. Go for it.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

http://www.muleshoe-eng.com

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

The harder I work, the luckier I seem

 

[waskillywabbit]

Several things to note:

Alabama has no provisions in the law to waive exams, so that is out.

I have the FE Exam Review Lindeburg book and will go through it w/ a fine tooth comb until I know it inside out, as in down time at work I am allowed to study, as long as I am busy; bonus there.

I plan to take a review course offered at The University of Alabama as well.

At the earliest, I plan to take the exam April 2006, just so I have ample time to prepare.

From what I've read in other posts, seems like those two study tactics should be enough to pass the FE.

I don't want this to consume my life or become a burden, but I'd like to get it done before my boys get old enough so that their extra-curricular activities consume my every waking minute!

Brian
Pressure Vessels and Autoclave Systems

http://www.mcabeeconstruction.com

The above comments/opinions are solely my own and not those of McAbee Construction.

 

[DaveVikingPE]

For whatever reasons - both the academic track I took and my professional track - I needed ten years' of solid engineering design experience before I "knew" that I would be eligible to take the FE and PE exams.

So the years went by and I accumulated the experience. But... I didn't take the FE; I probably could've taken it after working for just a couple of years, but no. (I have a BS in a non-engineering science - but spent the next seven years thereafter studying engineering and ultimately getting my master's degree... looking back, I should have worked with my advisor - or asked him the right questions - and taken a couple more labs, or whatever, to acquire a BS in engineering along the way).

ANYWAY, I applied for both the FE and PE at the same time. My application was accepted and for the next six months I studied for both (did the structural option on the PE).

I took both tests in the same weekend and passed 'em both - at age 41!

As the others did here, I got the Lindeburg FE book (and the civil supplement) and did all the problems. I also go the big, brown CERM from Lindeburg again, doing all the problems. I got the "60-second solutions to strcutural engineering problems" book, an NCEES sample exam, the CERM sample exam and all manner of problems.

But first... I identified what my absolute weakest subject was and my absolute strongest. I was weak in surveying and transportation, that was about it. I also hadn't done ANY thermo or electrical stuff for more about 15 years. And I didn't feel comfortable enough in chemistry. My strengths: structures, earthworks, engineering economics and scheduling.

Even though the FE's morning session was general, I felt I had to concentrate on surveying and transportation since, when I thought about it, I didn't know squat about highway design. So I spent the first three weeks in May (I was scheduled to take the October exam) working through the Schaum's outline of surveying. Geometry is a strength, so this surveying stuff was a lot of fun. Next, I decided simply to work through the FE book first, for three months and then do PE-only studying for the remaining three months. I figured that I didn't have to study for the civil FE session since that would be covered by my PE studying.

I adopted a do-or-die mentality, I prayed A LOT, developed a mantra "gonna study, gonna pass, gonna study, gonna DO IT."

Here's how I put it to my wife, right at the beginning, after our first fight in May - because I was "not paying attention to her": 1) support your husband, this is temporary. 2) Your choice is either I stay at work until midnight every night and on weekends or I come home and study and you stay out of my way. 3) If you want to take off for a vacation or something, I'll pay for it, but I'm not going, have a good time.

She agreed, but it was not without a lot of tears on her part, but so what?! I didn't mean I didn't love her, it didn't mean that I didn't care about her, etc. It meant I had a task and I was serious about accomplishing it.

OK, back to studying. My math was good, so I cranked through the FE math studying quickly. Statics I did in half a day! That stuff I can do in my sleep! Thermo and electrical? My dormant knowledge from classes eons ago "woke up" and I was comfortable with my abilitiies. And so on. The toughest subject for me to "grasp" FE-wise, surprisingly, was dynamics - at the beginning, so I went through it three times. Plus I'm still not comfortable with manometers, even though I've done, what, a hundred manometer problems?

When it came time to study for the PE, there was a lot of crossover, especially with fluids. Transportation engineering, which was somewhat new to me, I found interesting and fun - but I didn't have time to be interested or entertained... In the end, I was doing only structures problems.

Other strategies: I took the two weeks before the exam off from work and shut myself in. The last thing I did, before getting A LOT of sleep Thursday, was take an FE exam.

Stuff I didn't do: time myself; I didn't see the need and besides, at least for the FE, the little math problems I can do in less than a minute. I also didn't tell people about my studying woes; I simply didn't talk to people at all - unless I was at work, otherwise: my head is buried in books. I did not take a review course, no time nor desire.

Stuff I did: I filled twenty spiral notebooks with worked problems. I bought two HP-33S's; my 28S and 48S weren't allowed on the exam and being an "HP guy" I needed an RPN calculator. I bought the 33S in April, prior to the exam, and used it exclusively at work and at home from then on. I set up a couple of programs on it: quadratic equation, completing the square, and linear interpolation. I, through means available to me, collected ACI-318, IBC-2003, ASCE 7-02, AISC ASD and LRFD manuals, AASHTO's Green Book and the Bridge manual, the FHWA traffic manuals and the Highway Design Manual from the Transportation Review Board. I was and am very comfortable with the codes, but there's always stuff to learn. I brought these with me for the PE... they were tabbed... One thing I had taught myself while studying was to "know the tabs." The CERM is very good at teaching one to know where you've tabbed what.

I had a car service take me to the exam, both days. I brought MREs with me for lunch (do a google search if you don't know what those are!).

I spent, in total, about $1100 on supplies and related stuff (including the car service).

The morning session of both exams was easier than I thought they would be; I finished both before the time was up. The afternooon session of the PE - structures, was HARD. The civil FE afternoon session was REALLY HARD. In the former case, dang... In the latter, I didn't have a good grasp on environmental engineering. Additionally, the engineering economics questions (both exams!) were vexing.

I fought the "stunned" feeling I had after the PE (the PE was on a Friday, the FE the following Saturday) and had a night, calm dinner and went right to sleep. I dressed comfortably for both tests. I didn't talk to anyone while waiting outside - except for a couple of coworkers.

I left both exams with a feeling that I had barely passed - but I did think that I had passed.

If I had to do it over again I would:

1. Take the FE years before the PE.
2. Studied structures harder; even though my daily work is structures, I don't do much with bridges, high-rises, or prestressed concrete.
3. Have gotten married BEFORE undertaking the effort!

But, in the long run, I passed 'em both. I did better on the FE than I did on the PE - a surprise - but it is all over!

So, waskillywabbit, I wish you much success! It is DEFINITELY worth it. Magic doors start opening, and some you didn't even know were there appear and they're open, too!

 

[TakeoT]

I took the FE and the PE when I was 42 and 43, respectively. Obviously, I'm no spring chicken. I didn't take a class, but I got a stack of problem books and started working out problems until I turned blue in the face. When I took the tests, I felt pretty confident. Actually, I was a little mad at myself, because there were things that I learned while studying that I should have learned in the first place.

Develop your own strategy. It was good for my kids to see Dad study along side of them and for them to see that all things don't come easily.

Take the test, and don't worry too much. If you don't pass the first time, and plenty of competent people don't, do not fret! You'll take it again the next time. Remember, you've got a lot of things distracting you these days; it's not like it was in college. No one asks you how many times it took to pass; no one keeps records as far as I know. In fact, when you pass, they don't even give you your score to tell you by how much you passed.

At the very least, you'll know that you're not getting senile.

 

[waskillywabbit]

Thanks for the testimonies and the words of encouragement!

Anybody else?



Brian
Pressure Vessels and Autoclave Systems

http://www.mcabeeconstruction.com

The above comments/opinions are solely my own and not those of McAbee Construction.

 

[SB63]

Get the FE review manual from PPI. It is all you need to pass the FE exam. You don't need to work the problems in this book but do need to understand how to solve them. The FE is a harder exam because it is grinding problem solving under time pressure and you cannot bring in references. The PE has less questions and more time to look things up in the reference books you can bring in. Bring plenty of references because the questions can be arcane.

 

[PZas]

One more comment that hasn't been mentioned about the FE.

Every problem on the test is answerable with the formulas in the handbook. period.

Use your handbook while studying. Know how the equations are written and how to solve for ever variable in the equation. Understand which equation is for which problem. Unfortunately the equations are not the basic ones you will find in most of the books at the FE level. You will have to dumb down each equation and know when you can and can't remove pieces.

All in all if you know how to use the handbook you WILL pass. This is not adivce it is fact. The test is always written this way.

On another note don't be intimidated by the test. There is nothing tricky on the test and few of the problems will require indepth analysis. Almost everything is straight forward.

 

[whyun]

If this offers any encouragement...

Pass rate is relatively high. If you made an attempt to prepare/study for the exam, chances are you will pass. You don't have to get all the answers right to pass. My strategy was to skip ANY questions that will take some time to solve and come back to them at the end. You'd be surprized how subconciously you can figure them out while solving other problems.

 

[icelad]

I hope this helps

I took the EIT at 50. Had not had any Chem in 15 years. Any elec classes in 25 years. Never had thermo or statics and dynamics or materials. Never had any school of engineering classes save one or two. I studied these on my own. The way I did was to read the books cover to cover once. GO back and read them agian. You will notice the start is easier because of what you read in the later chapters. Repeat as needed. It is possible to learn this yourself if you belive in yourself. Look at it as something that you want to learn, not have to learn. Also if you ask the PEs bosses etc at work one question a day on some of the things you study. At the end of a year you will have two hunderd answers, tips, solutions etc. for the test. That really helped me. I am a RLS and I found that something that also helped with the transpo questions even though I had not had the class I found that I could do enough to get the two best answers at worst. Many times it is from your area of knowledge that answer come to from questions in different areas. Good luck. You can do it. You lose nothing by trying. Remember it will hack off the people who said you cant do it.
Let me know if I can help
John

 

[bacon4life]

For the morning portion of the FE, knowing where the formulas are in the reference guide and how to solve equations for the unknown variable was very helpful. Some of the questions you don't need to know anything about the subject, just how to manipulate the equation.

I found the afternoon section much harder to make attempts on questions where I had not studied the material.

Just try taking a practice test to see where you are at. It should give you a good idea how much time to set aside for studying.

 

[14159]

Take the day before off from work and rest. Don't do any practice within a few days of the test. I found that in all three of my tests, FE, PE, and SE, endurance was a limiting factor.

These are common sense and might've been covered by some of the other voluminous posts, but I'll type them anyway:

Make sure you're ready for any temperature in the room. I wore a tee-shirt and a sweatshirt and then put the sweatshirt over the back of the chair if it was not cold.

Take two calculators -- one might die.

If you drink caffeine or have blood sugar problems, be prepared. It's a long day.

Pack your lunch. At my testing locations, any fast food was 15-20 minutes away and I felt better not having to rush through traffic to get back to the test on time.

The examples manuals were worthless for me for both the PE and SE tests. For the PE test, I just wrote out a list of the topics (steel, concrete, ...) and then for each topic, wrote out a list of all the big picture problems that could be asked. With my lists, I effectively figured out how many days I could spend on each topic, prioritizing the topics starting with the ones that I knew the least about. I found example problems (like in the PCA Notes and Masonry Designers Guide) and worked them.

For the SE test, any preparation seemed, and proved to be, futile. The problems that they ask are so unpredictable that it's more of a matter of abuse taking. Take it over and over until they ask something that is known... I have heard that it's been easier the last couple of times though.

Good luck.

DBD