Field application contactor smoked 3

[Thedroid]

Just a follow up on my post from a few weeks ago. Last night we had a Joslyn Clark relay blow up and take the exciter with it. I've been looking for a suitable replacement for these, but have not had the best of luck. Seems like no one makes these kind of contactors any more. The only one i've been able to find is an ABB, but i'm still waiting on a response from the factory. Original problem was the permanent magnet blow outs and shield disintegrating. I noted damage 2 weeks ago, and we ordered an identical replacement until we can substitute a different type of contactor. The replacement hasn't shown up yet, but thats the least of our worries, because now the exciter is fried also. Here's a pic.

 

[Thedroid]

Another pic

 

[ScottyUK]

Siemens definitely make the bar & shaft type of contactor. They're usually a user-configurable part so it might not be a straight catalogure item. They do list single pole DC and three pole AC variants. I think I mentioned Telemecanique as a possible option in your other thread - looks like they have abandoned that range because I can't find it anywhere, although I admit their web site does a great job of hiding things.

If you really are making no headway with ABB you might try their operation at Coventry, UK. With the exchange rate the way it is, it might not be a bad price!

Good luck with the repairs - once you get the black soot off it's likely not as bad as it looks.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[Thedroid]

Doesn't look to good for the exciter. There are several wires coming from different boards that melted from heat. It would take a lot to clean and repair,and I wouldn't want to be close when power is applied.

 

[LionelHutz]

Benshaw could build you a new field package which does not use contactors at all. Seems that would solve your problems.

I'm not sure where you are in the world though.

 

[Thedroid]

Recieved a quote for a GE contactor today. Pricey, but not nearly as much as another failure. All of our Field contactors look terrible, and it's only a matter of time before the next problem. Good thing nobody had the cabinet open at start up. I'm waiting for ABB, and would like to compare there offerings to GE's. It's kind of funny that the GE contactors are the same model that was removed from service during the "upgrade".

Still nothing from Telemecanique or Siemens.

How is the field applied on a modern synchronous motor?

 

[LionelHutz]

We just use SCR's to control the resistor and the DC field. It makes for a simple and relatively cheap package. If you were quoted as high as I expect for that contactor, then our new controller package would be very competitive.

 

[jraef]

Tele and Siemens will not have an offering. When Schneider bought Sq. D. they sold off the division that made DC contactors and I don't think they survived as a stand-alone company. Siemens also sold off their US DC contactor division to Hubbell Industrial Controls. Siemens still has the 3TC Series DC contactors, but they don't offer NC contacts like that (I used to work there).


"If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my axe." -- Abraham Lincoln
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[powerjunx]

kindly implement proper maintenance...it seems dust/dirt accumulates inside the panel.


"..the more, the merrier" Genghis Khan

 

[ScottyUK]

jeff,

Thanks for the info on the 3TC series - that goes against what the Siemens rep told us but certainly tallies with the tech data on that range. Maybe he was just confused!

Telemechanique's European DC range based on the same frame as the (now obsolete) LC1B range of AC contactors. I'm pretty sure the ones I'm familiar with were of French origin. If that product line was sold off and has been lost then it's a real shame because that range was a shining example of how good Telemechanique's products once were.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[Thedroid]

The abb rep I spoke told me that all of there bar contactors are made in France. That's where I'm waiting on the quote from. As far as maintenance, the enclosures are kept clean, whatever your seeing must have been from the fire.

 

[EChristenson]

DC Contactors are also made by

http://www.cableform.com

(full disclosure: my employer -- we have also made DC generator field controls, and solid-state DC contactors)
microelettrica scientifica (what we use when the voltage gets too high)
Hubble
EC&M (was Schneider/Square D) (what we use when the current gets too large, about 500A)

 

[jraef]

EChristenson,
Damn, wish I had known you existed last year. I was asked to help on a transit project where they wanted a 500VDC solid state contactor to keep power off of the power rails until a vehicle actually approached within 20ft. I was working on the communications part of it, we ended up making the DC SSC from scratch, it was a PITA. I would have much rather bought something already made. I'll keep it in mind if that ever comes up again.

Forgot about Microelettrica.
EC&M is the one I was trying to remember that used to be Sq. D., have they survived? My old link to come 404.


"If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my axe." -- Abraham Lincoln
For the best use of Eng-Tips, please click here -> faq731-376

 

[ScottyUK]

Finally found the Telemecanique type numbers if you're still interested:

CV1B series
CV3B series
CR3B series

Cut & paste the full link below. Sorry that the TGML has made a mess of it. Warning - it is an 80MB file! Look at the 728th page of the PDF.

http://www.global-download.schneide...EA6C985257674006F3592/$File/mkted210011en.zip

The CV3 series is available with a mixture of NO and NC contacts on a common shaft, and I've seen them put up with outrageous levels of abuse with virtually no detrimental effect so they are highly recommended if they're still in production.

Previously mentioned in thread237-172779, but Schneider's website does a better job of hiding it now than then. The search function on that website is only surpassed in its ability to hide useful information by our very own Eng-Tips search tool.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[Thedroid]

Thanks.. I'll check those out today.

 

[jraef]

Maybe I'm just being thick, but I didn't see DC ratings on those.


"If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my axe." -- Abraham Lincoln
For the best use of Eng-Tips, please click here -> faq731-376

 

[ScottyUK]

Hi Jeff,

You passed the endurance test - you downloaded the file.

My mistake, it starts on the 718th page, not the 728th. They have a DC-5 rating at 220V/pole for the CV-1 series and 440V/pole for the CV-3 series.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!