Fire-Fighting Boat Connection to Facility Ring Main

[eriskawk]

Hi all,

Anyone familiar with Fire Fighting Boat services?

We have demand of Firewater for a shore facility 836 m3/h. We have 1x100% firewater tank but our facility is foreseen not enough to fulfill the tank in less than 8 hours as per NFPA codes requirement. Alternatively, we are proposing to provide connection at the tug boat landing to Firefighting Boat to supply firewater (from sea) in case of emergency, which will be connected to our ring main.

The problem is, we do not know what size and how many hose/connection required to fulfill 836 m3/h from Firefighting Boat to shore ring main. We are not familiar with FF shore services.

As far as we know, there is some international ship/shore connection which can supply 57 m3/h only. while the required firewater demand is 836 m3/h, means that we need 836/57 = 15 ea international ship/shore connection (ISS). We have 2 fire-fighting boats available, each boat can supply seawater with capacity of 1200 m3/h (600 m3/h x 2 seawater pumps).

- Is it possible to provide 15 ea international ship/shore connection at this tug-boat landing? as we don’t have reference for fire-fighting boat, so we have no idea if one fire-fighting boat can have multiple ISS connections.
- Is there any larger connection to connect to fire-fighting boat? e.g., using 6” storz coupling or 4-way breeching inlet so more flow rate can be supplied from the boat? In that case, fire-fighting boat need to have the same connection and we have no idea if this can be done.


Any response is highly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[pierreick]

Hi,
Did you contact the fire brigade in your area, they should be able to point you in the right direction?
Pierre

 

[shvet]

Marine firefighting has never been discussed on chemical plant forum before. This is definitely a next tier of local community.

@eriskawk
Are you sure that persons competent in tugboats and vessels firefighting read "Chemical plant design & operations" forum ?

 

[LittleInch]

I don't know why you're hung about these connections which are designed for single hydrant sized flows whereas you need serious quantities and are just using the ships pumps as a mobile pump / floating resource.

836 m3/hr would need something like a single 12" or 16" connection or maybe 2 x 8" hose connections.

Just equip the tug with a two 8" nominal hose connections and the same at your shore location and use hoses to connect the two.

Basically size the flow at the ID of the hoes to be somewhere between 3 to 4 m/sec and use that to work out what modifications you need to do.

If money is no object then you could even buy Marine Loading Arms, but that seems rather OTT.

Your initial design is a bit like saying I need to fill a road tanker full of fuel. How many "normal" petrol pumps do I need? Totally different scale so forget about the 2" connections and go for something bigger.



Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[TiCl4]

Am I missing something? You have a boat floating on the ocean. The ocean is much bigger than any reservoir tank you can get. Why not suck directly out of the ocean and use that for firefighting? This is routinely done with lakes and rivers by fire departments. Is seawater all that different when fighting a fire?

 

[LittleInch]

Maybe his facility is a bit too far from the ocean?

Seawater is horrible to deal with as everything corrodes unless you are very careful.



Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[eriskawk]

Hi @pierreick, thank you for your suggestion. I will try to contact the closetest fire brigade near the shore.

@shvet my goodness, I didnt realize until you replied. I did post in the wrong forum.

@littleInch yes, I am aware that with "normal" pipe, 863 m3/h will need 12-14" pipe size. But I believe in terms of "firefighting" it has special rules. I was thinking if maybe there are different standardized size specific only for firefighting, of which I am not really aware if there is any bigger ISS (international Shipshore Connection) size acceptable/available in the market than 2.5"

@TiCl4 our existing firefighting system is not designed for seawater service. Like @littleInch said, seawater is corrosive. We use the tug boat during emergency case/maintenance only.

 

[LittleInch]

eriskawk,

This though is not really "fire fighting" but simply a means of using the pumps on the vessel to supply firewater into either your fire pond or your ring main.

As such this is not really within the scope of what the "rules" are meant for which is, as far as I can tell, simply a supposedly universal connection from the shore onto a vessel to supply water to the vessels fire main in case their pumps doesn't work or it needs a bit more water. it is clearly envisaged that this is limited to a standard fire hose size of pipe and water flow, hence the 2 1/2" connection.

This is bulk supply of firewater from effectively a floating pump. Very different.

Anyone who is getting too rigid with their interpretation of this is making, IMHO, a serious mistake as you need to look at the reason behind the "rules".

Some level of engineering judgement and appreciation that if it is indeed something which must be complied with (beware of what lots of people say are "rules" are actually not legislation, but essentially guidance, there is usually some level of judgement and alternatives or argument that the "rules" don't apply in this instance.

Who are you talking to about this in any form of AHJ? This is usually the fire department or similar safety body and if you put forward a sensible and rational design then they need to adjudicate on it and discuss as required.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[shvet]

Guess
Foaming agent (a range of possibly applied agents) or foam nozzles may not be tested or certified for raw seawater. It may be safer to use a controlled source of water like tap water rather than to diagnose during fire event why the nozzle does not spay properly or the foam is not foaming.

 

[LittleInch]

shvet - agreed - although many times the thought is that any water is better than no water, but there needs to be a procedure to flush all the salty water out and that any foam or other agent is dual certified for potable and sea water.

I've seen before where locations close to the sea have this (seawater pumping) as the last line of water supply if they run out of potable / fresh water. Causes havoc if they ever use it as the whole plant goes rusty after about 3 months and the fire water system falls apart if they don't flush properly, but if the alternative is an inability to contain a fire that's the price you pay.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.