Fire water alternate utilization

[Mbashir]

We have an MOC to use fire water as emergency alternate to Aux C/W in case of its failure. Is this allowed by standard and which standard actually talks about it

 

[MJCronin]

I believe that this question sets several records for Eng-Tips ....

MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer

 

[pierreick]

HI ,
You won't find standard!
You should check within your organization , only you can decide whether it's acceptable or not.
Note : Check with the insurance broker for your plant ,I'm quite sure that they won't allow this MOC.
Good luck
Pierre

 

[LittleInch]

The question is whether it is allowed by your AHJ.

I strongly doubt anyone would think this is a good idea or allowable.

Build a new tank for your other usage.

NFPA will have something to say about this ...

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[crshears]

Hmmm . . .

At the coal-fired generating station I worked at some years ago, occasional use of the fire system for other purposes was not at all frowned upon since it was viewed as equipment exercise that actually accomplished something useful, instead of wasting all that energy expenditure through a test orifice.

CR

"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another." [Proverbs 27:17, NIV]

 

[LittleInch]

Using the fire waste system to transport water somewhere in the plant whilst filling the fire water pond / tank at a similar rate is one thing, using the stired water in the fire water tank for another purpose is what the OP is asking. Now that I don't think is permitted, nor a good idea.

If the volumes were say 10% then maybe, but we have no details as usual.


Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[crshears]

Valid point, Little; the water storage in my instance was Lake Ontario . . .

Not to mention I don't know what an MOC is, but then again the OP did not spell it out, either.

 

[LittleInch]

I do know that... Management Of Chsnge.

And indeed I have assumed that fire water was in a tank or pond.

We don't have much information...

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Mbashir]

A more detail about MOC:
F/W system is fed from tank which has contineous supply to maintain level and with alternate supply option in case of any emergency.
The MOC idea is to provide a connection on the AuX C/W supply at the battery limit of each unit of the mant in the plant and in case of failure of AuX C/W. The plant in control manner to be fed from fire through a hose connection from the hydrant. In case of any F/W requirement ioslation of these temporary connection to be carried out.
I search standard but cannot find straight yes/no answer and if this the case, our way forward is to review this change internally and decide.

 

[MJCronin]

Thank goodness we are slowly learning "A more detail about MOC" .. !!!

It seems that your intention here is to save piping capital cost and come up with a quick solution

Rather than instituting a management system to monitor your Firewater Aux/C/Wt interconnections, why not install a modern dedicated cooling water piping system and be done with it ?

According to the US Fire Codes, if your water tank/reservior is properly sized, it can serve both the Fire Protection and plant cooling needs.

It's just more piping .. your plant has grown and demands more Cooling Water !!!

What happens when there is a fire and your fire fighters find the hydrants already piped up and no place to connect !!!!

This is how plant fires get out of control .... operators "forget" that there are several interconnections to the fire water system and, when there is an emergency, the fire protection system cannot perform ...

You cannot use your MOC system as a Management crutch in this case ...

I agree with LittleInch .....

MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer

 

[don1980]

There's nothing sacrosanct about F/W. The relevant question is whether this use of F/W impairs the ability of that system if a fire occurs. If the answer is no, then I see no problem with this.

 

[MJCronin]

There is a forum for "NFPA (fire) Code Issues" on eng-tips ... You may want to post there

This is certainly not the first time someone has desired a blended Water Supply system and wanted to use that nearby fire water system !!!

NFPA also has a BLOG that answers many similar questions

This link may help... A review of your local fire code and the legal requirements for the water supply would help

https://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Resea...Blog-Posts/2021/06/07/Types-of-Water-Supplies

MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer

 

[Mbashir]

great answer definitely help a lot.
has anyone experience similar type of MOC / utilization, if so what consideration you made and whether the project fulfills the desired outcome.