fire water tank filling withen 8 hrs. 2

[mody2017]

Dear members,
i have an issue about a project that we have two fire tanks 2500 m3 each and as per AHJ requirements these tanks shall be filled withen 8 hours.
tie-in water from the municipality is 260 m3/hr.and feed pump with these flow values ( 260 m3/hr. ).
i suggest from the client to have fire truck to fill the tanks with the remaining water flow values, but he refuse this solution.
if you can help me to find another solutions, i will be very pleased.

 

[Artisi]

Is this for initial fill?

It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. (Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia.)

 

[mody2017]

yes and itis existing case from 10 years and we search for solutions.

 

[Latexman]

Is 2500 m3 / 8 hr = 312.5 m3/hr > 260 m3/hr the problem?

Numbers is hard.

Good luck,
Latexman

To a ChE, the glass is always full - 1/2 air and 1/2 water.

 

[mody2017]

5000m3/8hr. = 625m3/he. > 260 m3/hr the problem?

 

[LittleInch]

There are only three possible solutions here.

Get the AHJ to relax its requirement and make it 8 hours per tank. Or

Increase the flow rate. Or.

Build a temporary tank of 2500 m3, fill it then pump at 260 plus the mains.

This is a totally artificial requirement so need challenging. It should make no difference how long it takes. That's why you have a tank.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[jari001]

What other water sources are available? Does your client understand that the municipal water tie-in is physically incapable of meeting the filling requirement...you can't put more into your tank than what you get.

 

[Latexman]

Booster pump?

Good luck,
Latexman

To a ChE, the glass is always full - 1/2 air and 1/2 water.

 

[Artisi]

But what is the problem, if they are fire water tanks, once filled they should stay filled unless there is a fire or is the client using the fire water supply for other things, also what is the fire water demand if and when there is a fire.
Think you need to expand the question as to me it doesn't make any sense at the moment.

It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. (Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia.)

 

[mody2017]

my client know that and he requested me to find solutions, but may be he will refuse the temporary tanks because we discussed it before and he didn't like the idea requesting me to find another solution.
also the main problem happens during refilling of the tanks also.

 

[LittleInch]

"may be he will refuse the temporary tanks because we discussed it before" Fine, then tell him he needs more flow.

The problem will be that during the tank filling, the local village / inhabitants will have no water. Tell him he will need to stand outside the gate and explain why...

Why are these tanks being re-filled?? sounds to me like they are being used for things other than fire fighting.... either that or you have a lot of fires?

You're not getting many sensible solutions here because your client is being an obstinate idiot. There's really not much any of us can do about that other than suggest you write him a report, keep copies and then leave and don't expect to work for that person again.


Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[MFJewell]

Not sure where you are located, but my experience in both nuclear and fossil power stations was that we had to have x hours of storage. After that, you just accepted the risk. Whatever our max consumption was drove the size of the fire pumps (usually around 2000-2500 gpm) then used say 2 hours (so 300000 gallon storage tank). One suggestion, is the site near a natural waterway? At one nuke plant, we used the river as a source for one of our fire pumps, therefore, it was considered an infinite source of supply.

 

[mody2017]

thanks a lot for your reply, but noted that my project located in the deep desert.

 

[Artisi]

Your problem hasn't been defined so meaningful advice cannot be offered. you need to fully explain your problem, saying they need to be filled in 8 hours is meaningless.
Filled when - for initial fill, during a fire situation, or to be refilled because the gardener over-watered the lawns?

It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. (Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia.)

 

[mody2017]

to refill withen 8 hrs. itis AHJ requirements

 

[LittleInch]

We're kind of going round in circles here.

My plan would be:
1) Request a dispensation from the AHJ for this requirement which is unreasonable and not based on any international code, standard or operating practice.
2) Build a spare tank of 2,500 m3 capacity which is not designated as fire water but "bulk water storage" or "utility water" and install a pump to fill at the required rate together with your utility supply
3) Request more water flow from your utility supplier on an infrequent basis
4) Go searching for your own water supply
5) Hire 50 large water tankers (25 m3) on the basis that you can do 2 trips and have a separate pump out system ( revise based on how many trucks you can turn round in 8 hours)
6) Shrug your shoulders and walk away

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Artisi]

To refill within 8 hours, following what event - a fire that depleted the whole supply?
What is the output from the firepumps if on fire fighting duty?

It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. (Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia.)

 

[mody2017]

thanks a lot for your perfect advice.

 

[1gibson]

Paint a line halfway up the side of the tank or whatever you can fill in 8 hours, and label it "FULL." Paint another line at the real capacity that says "MAX."

 

[LittleInch]

I'd still like to know which option you're going to take...

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.