Fluid transients software recommendation

[barqueiroenmarte]

Hi all,

I am looking for a software to simulate fluid transients (mainly water and steam hammer in CCPP) with the following main features:

- Valid for compressible and incompressible simulations.
- With capabilities to define unbalanced forces in piping system (for a subsequent time-history analysis with other software i.e CAESAR).

Any recommendation based on your experience?

Thank you.

 

[LSThill]

barqueiroenmarte (Industrial)

One possibility is PAULIN RESERACH GROUP BOSS Fluid

http://www.paulin.com

BOS Fluids

BOS Fluids is an engineering software package that analyzes fluid transients in pipe systems and relates this information back to the mechanical piping system transferring the fluid.
For years, piping engineers have labored with simplifying hand methods, cumbersome analogue computers, or user-unfriendly software products when needing basic steady state and transient fluid analysis capability. BOS Fluids is written specifically to address the needs of the piping engineer for fluid reaction forces, and to provide a system whereby the fluid simulation results can be easily integrated back into the piping system design and analysis.
BOS Fluids is an interactive computer simulation package that models steady state and transient flow in liquid or gas carrying piping systems. The procedure is easy to use and interfaces with most pipe stress programs. The package contains the elements required to model most common unsteady flow conditions. The elements included in the simulation package are pipes, valves, pressure relief valves, vacuum breaker, air valves, pumps, equipment, surge vessels, inlets, outlets, and orifices. BOS Fluids makes fluid simulation simple and easily accessible and yet gives the analyst pressure transients and dynamic force results with an engineering accuracy.
The present friction model used in BOSFluids is Colebrook-White. The Darcy-Weisbach flow model is used for steady state pressure drop calculations and the basic theory applied in BOS Fluids can be found in Wylie & Streeter's "Fluid Transients" published by FEB Press. BOS Fluids is capable of simulating both the steady and transient behavior of liquid carrying closed conduit systems of pipes, valves, pumps and surge relief devices.
Typical analyses using BOS Fluids include:
• Water Transmission and Distribution Systems
• Main Cooling Water Systems for Chemical Plants
• Sewage Water Systems
• Combined Power and Drinking Water Cycle Power Stations
• Oil Product Transport Lines
• Tanker Loading and Unloading Systems
• Dynamic Behavior of Chemical Liquid Transport Lines
• Acoustic Analyses for Compressors and Pumps



Regards

Leonard Stephen Thill

 

[BigInch]

Isthill,

I don't see where it specifically says it can be used for steam hammer and unbalanced force analysis. Do you have experience using BOS for those purposes?


BTW its sufficient just to post the web page link rather than a cut and paste.

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

 

[barqueiroenmarte]

Thank you.

In fact I was focusing on BOS Fluids and Pipenet Transient (by Sunrise). The price difference between them is high.

Any expereince using these softwares? Advantages or disadvantages?
Anyone know which is the leader in this type of products?

Regards

 

[LSThill]

BigInch (Petroleum)

Mr. BigInch, RE your question (steam hammer and unbalanced force analysis) for BOS Fluids please contact support@paulin.com.

regards
Stephen
Leonard Stephen Thill

 

[BigInch]

I don't use either, but at least the PIPENET info says it will do what you require. I did not see the same in the BOS capability description. In fact that Pipenet information looks pretty good, at first glance.

Sorry I can't offer more help.

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

 

[barqueiroenmarte]

Biginch,

Do you use any other software for fluid transients? Can you provide us with your feedback?

Thanks.

 

[LSThill]

barqueiroenmarte (Industrial) BOS Fluids please contact support@paulin.com.


Table of Contents
BOS Fluids Version 4.111
Released September 25, 2003
Chapter 1 Section 1 – Installation, Setup and Security
Section 2 – Program Overview – Getting Started
Section 3 – Running a Test Job
Section 4 – Network Installation
Chapter 2 Section 1 – Steady State and Transient Program General Input
Section 2 – Program Utilities
Section 3 – Valve Closure and Transient Pressure Waves
Section 4 – Waterhammer Example Problem
Section 5 – Acoustic Frequencies Example Problem
Section 6 – Solution Theory
Section 7 – Safety Relief Valve Notes and Examples
Section 8 – SRG and SHW File Formats
Chapter 3 Section 1 – SPLASH 2D CFD Calculation
Chapter 4 Section 1 –Reciprocating Compressor Pulsation and Mechanical Analysis
Section 2 – BOS Fluids and API 618
Section 3 – API 618 Compliance for Reciprocating Compressors - Summary
Section 4 – BOS Fluids API 674 Compliance
Section 5 – Reciprocating Equipment Notes
Chapter 5 Section 1 – Slugs and Flashing
Section 2 – Vortex Shedding at Tees & Control Valves

Regards
Leonard Stephen Thill

 

[BigInch]

I have experience with the pipeline specific modelers, Advantica's Stoner Pipeline Simulator and Energy Solutions' Pipeline Studio. I think Stoner was the first transient analysis capable program in general use. Its been around since the late 60's. It has progressed considerably since then and is really great for pipeline work, but it does have some inconvenient features related to data entry and visualization of results. Despite those, it is very accurate and is well respected in the petroleum industry. It can be integrated with a SCADA system as a hot linked hydraulic model for leak detection and prediction of control actions. I think the same can be said for the Pipeline Studio. These programs will not do rigorous two-phase flow modeling, but they do have limited capacity to simulate some 2-phase flow behaviors sufficiently for a pipeline environment. I don't believe they are suitable for the analysis of steam condensation and neither do they calculate exterior force vectors.

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

 

[tkdhwjd]

Have you checked out the "FlowMaster" program?
I heard that you can predict/simulate unsteady state pressure escalation like hydraulic surges.

 

[BigInch]

I think the critical element of the question was "steam hammer". There are a whole bunch of programs that can do transient analysis with 1 phase flow, gas OR liquid, but few that will rigorously do both (2-phase flow) and probably fewer still that would do so with accuracy and very few that make it convenient to consider fluid-structure interactions. Given the level of hazard that can occur with steam vapor collapse, I wouldn't just "Google" and buy any one that turned up.

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

 

[davefitz]

barqu...:

which particular sort of waterhammer event are you trying to simulate?

- closure of turbine stop valve ( steam hammer)or bypass valve
--acceleration of excess water accumulation in LP bypass piping upon opening of LP bypass control valve

---other?

 

[barqueiroenmarte]

The event we usually simulate is the quick closure of the turbine stop valve.

I think that we need a software that can handle both compressible and incompressible flows but not necessary two-phase flow.

Regards

 

[BigInch]

Any program worth anything these days will do compressible flows for, if not gas and liquid, then one or the other. Forget about incompressible programs, unless you want one for free.

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com