FluidFlow3 software comparison

[Thermohead]

I wanted to get feedback from experienced users on how fluidflow3 compares to other similar packages in terms of accuracy and ease of use. it seems to be lower cost when bundled in gas/liquid/2 phase and dynamic analysis. it's probably the only lower cost package i could find that has all of the above. otherwise i'm into the stoner pipeline and others that are 10's of thousands/yr.

thanks for the feedback.

 

[Thermohead]

Made a request to change title and response from site was very quick. Thank you.
Any feedback now for my question?

 

[zdas04]

There are hundreds of pipe modeling packages. I've tested a couple of dozen and found significant problems with all of them. Some have node-count limitations that are too small. Some limit the calculations to equations that do not require friction factor (AGA, Panhandle, etc.). Many of them are "good enough" for most applications. The approach I take to evaluating a new piece of software is:
[ul]
[li]Look at the equations that it allows. Modern steel and all plastic is too smooth to ever get a relative roughness above the fully turbulent line on the Moody diagram, so AGA almost never gives good results these days. The Panhandle Reynolds Number range is pretty small. You need to think about what you are doing and determine the equation that is most appropriate. For gas flow I will always use an equation that explicitly uses a friction factor (which requires an additional iteration step) like the Isothermal Gas Flow Equation. This is even more important for liquid flow.[/li]
[li]Look at the method it uses to add a compressor or pump station. One well known program allows you to set the discharge pressure and hp and it floats the suction pressure. This is never the best choice.[/li]
[li]Look at the number of nodes. It should be at least an order of magnitude bigger than the biggest you can envision your system to grow.[/li]
[li]Don't look at the user interface. You can learn any user interface, and it is so easy to fall in love with the bling when the underlying arithmetic doesn't work.[/li]
[li]If you use a GIS, look to see if the model can accept a shape file to lay out the topography. Most can't, but this can save you a lot of struggle.[/li]
[/ul]
When you've found one that looks like it fits the bill:
[ul]
[li]Get a set of data from an installed system. Don't use averages, get a snapshot.[/li]
[li]Find a second set of data from the same system that is running at a different pressure.[/li]
[li]Build your model and tweak the levers that are available (usually it is pipe efficiency) until every source pressure is within 5% of actual data.[/li]
[li]Load your second set of flow rates and run the model without tweaking the controls. If the second run is within 10% at every point, then you can be confident that it has a chance of providing a valid evaluation of system modifications.[/li]
[li]If the second run is out of spec, adjust the levers to get all of the pressures within 5% and load the first dataset. If that run is within 10% then you have a model that is possible, but not high confidence.[/li]
[li]You can get a third dataset and see if it will match reality in either of the first two calibrated scenarios, but that lowers your confidence even further.[/li]
[/ul]

This is a lot of work, but you'll be living with this model for years and you'll never do the upfront work again, you'll just rely on model results. I've been using the same program since 1982. The user interface is amazingly awful, but the arithmetic is reliable. It was written for a 16 bit system and won't run on 64 bit. I'm looking for a replacement. Every one I've found so far has been really pretty, but they have all had one or more reason to disqualify them. I'm going to keep a 32 bit computer around until I find one that works.

The short answer to your question is that I've never run or tested Fluidflow3. They call themselves "The industry leading flow simulation software for pipe" so how could you go wrong with them? Well, 25 other companies also call themselves the industry leader so at least one of them is lying. I went to the FluidFlow web site and it is pretty. The video seems to be amazingly lacking in detail, but high on emotion. The module descriptions don't say much. I hate it when these web sites don't have a "marketing to geeks" section, but they don't seem to. I may eventually download one of the demo's, but not in any kind of time that would help you.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

Law is the common force organized to act as an obstacle of injustice Frédéric Bastiat

 

[Thermohead]

Thanks David for the feedback.

 

[Pipeline1972]

Something else you may want to keep in mind is, can you link the software, i.e. fluidflow, with microsoft excel? It is very helpful to be able to export data, e.g. calculation results, to an excel table, and even more helpful to be able to tweak the data in excel and import it back to the model. Think of a distribution system like cooling water, with dozens of laterals and hundreds of demands: it is much, much easier and more efficient to be able to set the flows in excel table and export to the model, than updating the flow demands in the model. Engineered Software's Pipe-Flo used to have this capability, but someone over there decided to nix this option for their latest version.

Also, what kind of support are they offering? Engineered Software has a very good helpdesk, but open during West Coast business hours only. I'm not sure if they have helpdesks overseas. Fluidflow's helpdesk is limited and located in N-Ireland, although i believe they are in the process of setting something up in the U.S.



Process - Piping
ing - EiT

 

[zdas04]

I've never had a model that I could import from Excel (I can see where that would be useful), but I use the export to Excel function all the time. There is no better way to compare run 43 to run 44 to see if your tweaks are getting better or worse.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

Law is the common force organized to act as an obstacle of injustice Frédéric Bastiat

 

[Thermohead]

Good points. Thanks. I know ff3 can export to excel. Will check on other way around. They have distrib here in Canada that can help with analysis and software use. So support should be good.