Focusing Too Much on the Negative 1

[kbits]

Subtitle: Am I really that bad, or is my skin too thin?

In the realm of getting things done in the engineering industry, I have often heard or been told to assume everything is going fine until someone lets you know otherwise. In other words, engineering supervisors often take extra time to provide criticism and red flag unacceptable mistakes and poor performance, yet they more rarely offer kudos for a job well done or a direct pat on the back for an acceptable job performance. In several instances, I have had project managers pull me aside and give me a reprimand in the guise of criticism, but never had a PM pulled me aside and said that the job was excellent or even above average.

Fortunately, I have finally found a team that seems to work to learn in an objective fashion, noting what went well and recognizing what went wrong, without lowering the boom on the heads of subordinate engineers, and at the same time tries to get things done as fast as humanly possible. Perhaps, because I am more experienced now, I have learned how to accept criticism, or my skin has grown thicker, I find myself in this team, where the stubborn mantra cannot heard. Still, with younger engineers, I am afraid that I will become what bothered me the most during my learning curve, needling them with notes of their mistakes, rather than mentoring them with firm, gentle guidance.

I would like to know, how is it elsewhere? Am I not in an oasis of learning, working and making the company money? Or is fire continuously burning in every engineering department, office, small company and large branch?

 

[csd72]

I was lucky to work at one company where all the work was thoroughly checked and the Directors/Senior engineers would always patiently go through their findings with me.

I learnt more there that anywhere else and also came to have a lot more confidence in my engineering knowledge and judgement.

It also worked both ways there, if I found something in one of their standard details that I though was wrong then they would listen to me and have a round table on the issue where necessary.

When I did anything for the first time, they would explain it briefly to me beforehand or refer me to a relevant text so that I was armed with the correct knowledge.

These things rarely happen in most companies, but there is no reason why they cant.

You should also be open to criticism from the junior engineers in return, sometimes they may catch one of your mistakes.

 

[corus]

Making mistakes is pretty much inevitable, it's what is otherwise known as gaining experience, and without bragging I have gained a lot of experience over the years. In every job you can look at a piece of work and find fault with it, in your eyes anyway. Some people will just comment on those and ignore the rest. I can't remember being praised for any work I've done in the past. Perhaps the only praise you get is the fact that they come back and ask you to do more work for them. I don't know if it's a british thing but it seems common in the UK not to say 'well done'. On the other hand working for an american company they seemed to go over the top in their praise, which being a reserved britisher is a little disconcerting. Whatever, it made the job better even though the company itself was the pits. Employers take note.

corus

 

[GMcD]

In the building systems engineering field, I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times some Client or Partner has said "well done" in over 27 years in the business. Normally in our world here, no news is good news. The only time we get a call after the project is complete and occupied is for problems - somebody is too hot, or too cold, or the boiler isn't working....When we don't hear anything, it's all OK.

The only time we hear from a Partner is when the fees are over budget and we get chastised for blowing the fees (but sir, the Architect has made the fourth round of changes in the reflected ceiling plans...) In building systems design the game has become keeping up with the changes and chasing the scope creep from all these changes, the design process is secondary now. It's all about information management and trying to get a good working efficient design at the end of the day in spite of the process.

 

[Maury]

I'm like GMcD, getting a compliment from management or a client is a rarity but hearing about faults is an everyday norm. Even praise includes "but you should have...."

 

[swearingen]

GMcD's statement that "no news is good news" is gospel around here. The designer working with me currently was speaking about this the other day. He said he was glad we were doing many projects in the same plant because he'll be able to see the ones we did first under construction while we prepare for the next ones. Usually, if there are few problems, we won't have to go to the field and also won't get that satisfaction of seeing what we designed "in the flesh". Naturally, that's the way we prefer it, but there is a satisfaction that comes with being able to see it all come together.

Other than the occasional, budgeted, very large project shirts, hats and smoke-blowing thank yous, I haven't had positive feedback on any project. I've come to accept that the ones that I never hear from are the ones that go well...

 

[Ashereng]

Hearing praise is not a common occurance in most industries, engineering firms, at home .... Never hearing any praise may mean you really are not that good.

I expect to hear more criticism than praise in my industry. I do expect to hear praise once in a while. I don't know if there is an industry norm for the ratio - if someone does, please share.

With regards to how to deal with the new engineers, if you didn't like the way you were treated when you were starting out, then I would suggest that you treat the new engineers you are working with differently - like the way you would like to be treated. The cycle needs to be broken, might as well start with you?

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[ctopher]

I had one boss that always had praise and a positive attitude. I learned and remember more from him than any other.
IMO, if the managers or coworkers are always negative, or don't say anything at all, you can be miserable and dislike your job.
Take all criticism as positive and as a learning experience. We all make mistakes.

Chris
SolidWorks 06 5.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 02-10-07)

 

[kchayfie]

In my industry, it seems that towards the end of a project and as the deadline starts to loom, everyone moves into finger-pointing witch-hunt mode and criticism flies around in all directions. Then, if the project gets finished and no one goes to court, we get letters of praise from the client for a job well done (even if deadlines got missed, as long as the finished article is OK). The art as an individual is to duck and cover during the blame period and then stick your head up again in time to take your share of the thanks.

 

[PSE]

The distilled nature/perception of my job:

Going well - This person is expensive overhead.

Not Going well - You're the engineer, get yourself out there and fix it!

I have been praised in the past and I have been flayed in the past. As long as I find myself still enjoying the work, I stay around.

Regards,

 

[kbits]

With a lack of praise the norm, let me ask you this, are you happy about that? In my opinion, negative feedback is better than no feedback at all, but I would prefer a bit of both, positive, too. Indeed, I have been overwhelmed by the misery of a seemingly insurmountable number of minor "challenges" from the boss. Mom, on the other hand, worked for SSA, and she said she never expected any thanks for doing the job she was hired to do. She was proud of that.

A lack of any feedback at all is another story. I worked in one consulting firm where not only did I have to figure out how to do my job without much guidance, but I also had to figure out whether or not I made a mistake without much feedback--from the boss, that is. When the clients called, by then I knew I had made a mistake. And then when it came time for an annual review, from under the table, the boss pulled up a long list of my cumulative transgressions. I was dumbfounded. Now, back to my mom. She is not perfect. She used to use my dad's past transgressions--sometimes ten or twenty years past--against him whenever she was losing an argument.

 

[Ashereng]

With a lack of praise the norm, let me ask you this, are you happy about that?

I don't know abut anyone else, but whether I am happy about it or not is not the point. I guess like your mom, I am "old" school (no further comments necessary), in that happy and work are really not used in the same sentence very often. It pays the bills. That is why we called it work.

If work = happy, it would be called "hobby". Very few people have a paying hobby. I guess Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are some examples. For me, it really doesn't matter.

I don't need a lot of praise - I know how I did. I can usually find the feedback if it isn't readily offered. I also usually know when the criticism is coming - benefit of experience I guess.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[SylvestreW]

I can count on one hand the amount of praise I've ever received from a supervisor/boss. I've lost count of how many "why the #$%$ did you do [...]" I've received.

I figure, getting more of the first one is nice, but it's more important to reduce the amount of the second one.

Nowerdays, no one says anything, so I figure I'm doing okay.

 

[ctopher]

These days most don't say anything because people are afraid to say anything. In today's society, people are so sensitive you can get fired or sued for saying the wrong or right things in the wrong context!

Chris
SolidWorks 06 5.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 02-10-07)

 

[nise56]

I am new to the industry and I question everything I do, being that it is the first time I have seen or worked with any of it. I have had one manager criticize a lot of what I do, which is understandable becuase I want to know my mistakes. However not ever hearing good job or any praise makes him more intimidating. He has come to be unapproachable for help to me. Second manager would let me know my mistakes but at same time would let me know that I am doing a good job and to keep it up. This has boosted my confidence and I am not afraid to ask for help from him. I have seen that I get more work done for second manager than I do for first. Thinking that you are doing everything wrong which is how I have felt does no one any good. Manager doesn't get stuff as fast as possible because I second guess everything.
I may be more sensitive than I wish to but I think new engineers to the industry need a confidence boost every now and then.

 

[GregLocock]

You /do/ need to second guess everything. One day you'll be designing something that can casue serious damage if it fails, and the chances are that you will be the only one who really understands the design.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[kbits]

I agree, the most critical and "negative" bosses can seem intimidating, and some of them seem also content to have that image, less distractions for them, I guess.

Following up on that, I had one boss who provided me only one piece of constructive advice. He said, "Never feel good about anything you do. As soon as anything leaves your desk, you should always be worrying about what you might have done wrong."

At the time, I felt that was ludicrous, but with no one to review my plans, I eventually found myself worrying more and double-checking everything. Double-checking is a good habit to have, and I believe senior engineers understand that the habit needs to start early in a career.

 

[prohammy]

Good post kbits, and good bit of advice from your boss.

I have found that that little feeling of panic that comes with/during handing over a design to the manufacturing engineers (and that little lull period, waiting for parts to come to the floor) can be a very healthy period for my designs. The first keeps me on my toes trying to head-off any potential problems that are in my design, and the second is the start of the 'what could I have done better' part of the process.

Double-checking (you know the thing you thought only older engineers did coz they were afraid to trust their designs) is probably the best lesson I have learned over the years. It is NOT focusing on the negative, it is step 1 in covering your ****.

These approaches have all come into my work life because some scary guy (various ex-bosses) let fly when I got something wrong. A good shouting from your boss tends to keep you on your toes....so long as it doesn't get personal.

PS I got praised once by one guy who was possibily the loudest of all my ex-bosses and to be honest I had no idea what to do with it. After a day or so I was begining to think I had reached some sort of watershed in my career. Two days later I was hauled into his office to explain another 'disaster' and life returned to normal

Kevin Hammond

Mechanical Design Engineer
Derbyshire, UK

 

[gerhardl]

This is the old story and still creating great interest and engagement worldwide. Look at the nuber of answers and different experiences and point of views!

Try to look at the original questions with a 'helicopter' view.

One US study implied that the best companies had leaders that most clearly managed to communicate the companys targets and policy to the employees.

Since the target of any engineering task is the best possible and optimum solution on long-term basis, all is based on and exhange of communication between people inside and outside your company, pooling information, knowledge and experience.

To communicate well (writing, drawing, calculating or orally) any person has to feel secure and understood, and also has to understand others.

Answer to questions: you have to have 'a little bit of this and a little bit of that'. But then statistically not more than a limitid nuber of companies or leaders will reach the 'very good' status on communicating and creating the right athmosphere.

Hence, we have to live with what we have got, try to improve ourselves and the company in this area, or change job....and even then there will always be some person in the system that could be thecnically very professional, but unprofessional in handling people...

And then again we will always end up where we started, with your own ability to handle yourself within a system consisting of a mix of engineering and people.

 

[kbits]

Thanks everyone for touching base on this "soft" topic of people management. As I am helping to create an environment where people of all levels and experiences enjoy giving their best to the cause and for the success of our company, your comments provide a valuable perspective on what's important to engineers and their work.