I wrote a QC manual for AISC SImple bridge certification and was preparing for that audit, but found out I had to upgrade to Major bridge with a Fracture critical endorsement. I have no problem updating the manual to encompass the few changes between Simple and Major, but writting a Fracture control plan is presenting a problem. For instance, I am not sure what format to take, and what things HAVE to be in it. I realize there are a lot of SHALL and WILL (s) outlined in the subclause 12, so which ones do I encompass and undertake. It says this starts with and is mainly focused on design. We don't have that function in house and thus subcontract it out. What do I say about that, just that as part of my subcontracting procedure I will ensure that the design engineer must provide past evidence of fracture critical member design?
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Fracture Control Plan
- Thread starter MalinQC
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You're a fabricator planning to hire bridge designers? What kind of projects are you going to be working on? Typically the DOT hires (or has in-house) a bridge designer, and then turns around and hires a contractor/fabricator to build that design.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376
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- #3
That is true that for most work, TXDOT has its own design, and hires a fabricator to build it. However, you still have to provide detailing and a mock up has to be done to get certification, which requires an engineering firm since we don't have one in house.
You need detailing, but not design.
There are requirements for detailer selection in the AISC cert; you'd have to satisfy those regardless. But those are typically independent of the FCP.
Other than that, you need to see what's different in the welding code between FC & non-FC welding, and make sure that your QCP (or the FCP part of your QCP) addresses how those different requirements are handled.
My personal preference would be for the QCP to address how you shop handles the differences between various requirements--FC vs. non-FC, bridge vs. non-bridge, etc., but that's not currently an AISC requirement. I wish it were; we sometimes run into problems with shops that do a lot of structural work and move a guy over from the structural side of the house to bridge and the guy does something that's normal for structural but a violation for bridge.
Hg
p.s. Did I talk to you on the phone yesterday?
Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376
There are requirements for detailer selection in the AISC cert; you'd have to satisfy those regardless. But those are typically independent of the FCP.
Other than that, you need to see what's different in the welding code between FC & non-FC welding, and make sure that your QCP (or the FCP part of your QCP) addresses how those different requirements are handled.
My personal preference would be for the QCP to address how you shop handles the differences between various requirements--FC vs. non-FC, bridge vs. non-bridge, etc., but that's not currently an AISC requirement. I wish it were; we sometimes run into problems with shops that do a lot of structural work and move a guy over from the structural side of the house to bridge and the guy does something that's normal for structural but a violation for bridge.
Hg
p.s. Did I talk to you on the phone yesterday?
Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376
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- #5
You might have. I am in Galveston, and we are trying to get certified. I have a third party coming in to look over what all I have done. If it was me you talked with on the phone, then maybe you remember me telling you I am doing this all alone. Starting from scratch with no prior bridge experience, this is a little challenging. Maybe the only reason I enjoy it so much I guess. My QCP doesn't discuss the differences in FC vs Non FC. I do have a FCP that discusses what will happen when a FCM is outlined in the Drawing and how we will handle it then.
Yeah, that was me. But I'll keep talking here in case someone else is in your boat and reading this. Gimme another call if you get seriously stuck.
If you have a separate FCP, put a reference to it in the QCP.
(WPS, PQR, LBJ, JFK, DFW, TLA.)
(Sorry, couldn't help it.)
Personally I am not a big fan of going straight to FC with no prior bridge experience. I would rather the fabricator got some practice on redundant structures first and then moved on to the scary stuff. But, again, that is not currently an AISC requirement.
You know that AISC offers coaching & pre-audit kinda stuff (for a fee, of course)? For your first audit in this category I strongly recommend doing that. There are also consulting firms that offer similar services. Get someone to look at your demonstration girder plans.
If you think you'll do TxDOT work rather than just Army Corps of Engineers work, also take a look at this:
It's the AASHTO/NSBA Steel Bridge Collaboration QC/QA spec. A number of states have adopted it, including your home state. Right now it doesn't follow the same structure as the AISC cert (I believe they're revising it so that it will), but you should make sure that all those ingredients can be found somewhere or other within your QCP (or within other documents referenced from your QCP).
Good luck. When's the audit?
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376
If you have a separate FCP, put a reference to it in the QCP.
(WPS, PQR, LBJ, JFK, DFW, TLA.)
(Sorry, couldn't help it.)
Personally I am not a big fan of going straight to FC with no prior bridge experience. I would rather the fabricator got some practice on redundant structures first and then moved on to the scary stuff. But, again, that is not currently an AISC requirement.
You know that AISC offers coaching & pre-audit kinda stuff (for a fee, of course)? For your first audit in this category I strongly recommend doing that. There are also consulting firms that offer similar services. Get someone to look at your demonstration girder plans.
If you think you'll do TxDOT work rather than just Army Corps of Engineers work, also take a look at this:
It's the AASHTO/NSBA Steel Bridge Collaboration QC/QA spec. A number of states have adopted it, including your home state. Right now it doesn't follow the same structure as the AISC cert (I believe they're revising it so that it will), but you should make sure that all those ingredients can be found somewhere or other within your QCP (or within other documents referenced from your QCP).
Good luck. When's the audit?
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376
- Thread starter
- #7
Well, the audit isn't going to happen until I have a third party come in and do an internal audit for me first. I think that is going to happen in about 3 weeks. I have a strong feeling that isn't going to go well, but that is a good thing. As for going for the FC endorsement, we are doing that by request of our contractor. I would much rather do the small stuff first, but I just do as I'm told. They say get Major Bridge with FC, and the SSPC QP-3, then thats what I do.
Look into getting the AISC Sophisticated Paint Endorsement instead of SSPC QP3 to save yourself an audit. There is reciprocity between the two programs; SSPC and AISC recognize each other's coating certification programs as "equivalent by intent". QP3 Class B was created with the express intent of being equivalent to SPE and it is the intent that fab shops (rather than paint-only shops) be covered under that category. The main difference between Class A & Class B is the HSE requirements, and for fab shops that's generally covered even more thoroughly by OSHA & similar so it's not needed in this certification.
In fact, in the works right now (a couple of administrative steps from publication but who knows how long that takes) is a joint AISC/SSPC standard for shop painting. Both SPE and QP3 will go away for steel fab shops and be replaced by this joint standard, and shops with AISC fab certification will be audited by AISC, not SSPC. Not sure if something like QP3 will remain for indoor applicators who are not fabricators.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376
In fact, in the works right now (a couple of administrative steps from publication but who knows how long that takes) is a joint AISC/SSPC standard for shop painting. Both SPE and QP3 will go away for steel fab shops and be replaced by this joint standard, and shops with AISC fab certification will be audited by AISC, not SSPC. Not sure if something like QP3 will remain for indoor applicators who are not fabricators.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376
bridgebuster
Active member
Below is a link to the NYSDOT Steel Construction Manual. There is a chapter entitled Fracture Control Plan, detailing the fabricator requirements.
You should also look at other DOT's to see what they require. As a fabricator, your obligation is to provide what the client requires. The bridge designer identifies the fracture critical members and tension zones of non-FC members. Unless I'm missing something?
You should also look at other DOT's to see what they require. As a fabricator, your obligation is to provide what the client requires. The bridge designer identifies the fracture critical members and tension zones of non-FC members. Unless I'm missing something?
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- #10
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