Fraudulent Mill Certs 9

[moltenmetal]

We received from a large, reputable distributor, four lengths of Chinese-origin 316/L pipe. All four had the same heat number and other mill markings. Mill cert list compositions in accordance with the spec and also indicate "100% PMI".

On-site PMI testing with an XRF gun (later confirmed by a third party NDE company) show the material to be several percent under in nickel content in three of four lengths tested, with the fourth being well within spec on Ni and other main constituents.

Though we've received material with other product flaws before, this is a first for us. Now that we're asking, we're hearing from others that this kind of thing does occur fairly often and to date we've just been lucky...

How often are you experiencing the receipt of material where either mill certs or mill markings are blatantly fraudulent? We're not talking about something being marginally off-spec here- we're talking several percent in the content of a key alloying ingredient!

Do others here have documented experiences of this sort with Chinese origin material? Which product forms? How about from other countries?

 

[Duwe6]

For a small-to-medium user of pipe and fittings, force your Purchasing Agent to only buy from a supply house that PMI's and checks dimensions of materials that they sell.

Ferguson/Pipe Products has such a program, thus we allow them to supply from China, India, Malaysia, etc. The rules for our other suppliers, the rule is "First World only". If an E.U. mill delivers fraudulent material, they CAN be sued. Try that in Asia.

Remember, the Chinese civilization is 3,000 years old. Bribes & payoffs for good material have always been required -- kumshaw. We are not going to change them in our lifetimes.

 

[chicopee]

You pay what you get. Buy US made products instead of the cheaper stuff from China.

 

[MJCronin]

FYI.....

Thermo Scientific Niton XRF Analyzers:

http://www.niton.com

"A culture of innovation and a distinguished history of breakthrough achievements define Thermo Scientific Niton x-ray fluorescence (XRF) analyzers…purpose-built for the rigorous demands of portable, nondestructive elemental analysis in the field."

Because of the sad experiences noted above, this certainly looks like a growth company to me.....

 

[gr2vessels]

My two cents;- in Oct 2006, a power plant in China purchased P91 pipes from US (they didn't trust the Chinese suppliers). The pipe exploded during commissioning, killing 4 workers. The investigations revealed the US supplier purchased the pipe from China and re-badged it with 'Made in US' stamp. For details, look up in the search block for P91 in top of this page.
The lesson learned is to use only 3.2 certification (do not use the Chinese Lloyds!) and your own live-in inspector for critical materials. They can make good things if they have to. This applies also for any suppliers, USA, Europe, everywhere.