From University Degrees to Diploma Mills

[JLSeagull]

I see ads from universities that I don’t recognize from thirty years ago. Some may be good, some not. Where do places like Phoenix University etc. fit in the grand scheme?

We have many prestigious universities within the United States. On one end are accredited colleges (state universities or even private schools of higher education) where course work can usually transfer toward a degree from another accredited college. The opposite end of the scale includes colleges not accredited by the same agencies that accredit the major universities within each region of the country.

I see many ads for colleges that I assume must be on the other end of the spectrum but lack any real knowledge of their prestige. I think that some advertised colleges are after the student loan funding and lack any real academic credibility.

Which are bogus, which credible and how does one know?

 

[MiketheEngineer]

If you want an engineering degree that is worth anything make the school is ABET acreddited.

 

[SomptingGuy]

Interesting question. Here in the UK there is no grey area a "school" can only use the term "University" if it has been granted that status by Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council.

- Steve

 

[djs]

Another point to consider is that in most states of the US, you must have a degree from an ABET accredited university to obtain a P.E. license. More than one person I know has been caught by this.

 

[GregLocock]

"in most states of the US, you must have a degree from an ABET accredited university to obtain a P.E. license"

Not actually true as I understand it. Every process has an alternative, albeit it may be expensive, hard and time consuming.


Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[msquared48]

Steve:

I strongly suspect that his title is for real, but, considering the double meaning of the word privy, I think consideration should be given to a change...

"Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council."

Now I know the origin of British humor... Tradition can be humorous.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[HamishMcTavish]

Mike, just in case you were interested...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Her_Majesty's_Most_Honourable_Privy_Council

regards, HM

No more things should be presumed to exist than are absolutely necessary - William of Occam

 

[kontiki99]

I believe the school should be more than ABET accredited.

I believe it should be additionally recognized as a top notch engineering school. Possibly get a copy of US News and World reports and start at the top of the list and work your way down looking for the program you want. Do not start at the bottom and work your way up.

If you are going to invest that much time and money, get as much bang for the buck as you can. You want to be around research money, in a talent pool with active ongoing programs if you can.

It may only matter during job searches, but ultimately you get your biggest raises going in the door the first time.

So much of how we are perceived and what opportunities are entrusted to us are based on perception.

To use a sports analogy, a first round draft pick will have first round draft pick prefix their list of accomplishments for their entire carrier. Studies show they get more court time and press time almost regardless of their performance, provided they do reasonably well.

Get credentials; get working knowledge, build good name dropping reputation, and golf.

 

[IRstuff]

Not that JLSeagull is necessarily looking for a college, unless he's looking for a career change.

However, one should caveat the college search with what colleges one is likely to get accepted to. There's little point in researching Caltech, MIT, UC Berkeley, etc., if you only get a 3.2 in high school, and your SATs are not even 2000 out of 2400. While everyone should strive to get into the best possible school, it is a mostly a waste of money to invest in applying to schools that are literally outside of your range.

You might get a lucky breakm but the odds are against it. As an alternative, you could pick the a school that's slightly below the one you want, and transfer in as a sophomore, which is sometimes substantially easier than trying to get in as a freshman.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[JLSeagull]

If I take formal college class work it might be to improve my foreign language skills or study things that did not interest me fourty years ago.

I posted this topic based upon the Resume’ Inflation discussion. About one score ago I reviewed a resume’ and recognized a completely bogus University. My suspicions were based upon my knowledge of colleges and universities from my home state. Those diploma mills were completely fraudulent.

If I review the ABET list for Electrical Engineering in Texas I find the assorted universities associated with The University of Texas, University of Houston, Texas A&M, Texas Tech etc., including Tarleton State that I did not previously know. I find religious colleges such as Baylor, Trinity, SMU and LeTourneau, etc.

Perhaps one should discount Internet diplomas from hiring consideration; or perhaps not. Check Texas and Arizona I don’t find Phoenix University. However, brick and mortar campus style schools exist such as Phoenix University, DeVry Institute and ITT Tech that advertise electrical engineering degrees. If hiring engineers, should candidates be eliminated if graduates of such schools? Are such programs credible as educational institutions?

 

[IRstuff]

I don't think that a blanket rule serves the overall interests of the company. And, it really depends on the caliber of the company as well. A place like Bell Labs could afford to interview at only Tier 1 schools like Caltech, MIT, etc., but they could also afford to only interview those with > 3.6 GPA; now, that's selective.

One the other hand, Schlumberger was willing to hire EE graduates from Tier 5 schools, because they were essentially doing technician jobs, babysitting automated oil exploration instrumentation, whose operating principles weren't needed by the operators.

There's bound to be some place that will hire such graduates, otherwise DeVry and ITT would fold up. Whether you need someone who graduated from a school of that caliber, is only known to you.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[JLSeagull]

I agree with the thought posted by IRstuff. Also I noticed the advertising at the bottom of this tread as follows:

Engineering Degree Online

http://www.grantham.edu/ppc/enginee...7b6a0311b3e5&gclid=CK76q8WaxJsCFUYA4wod-zPEDw

Need a Degree Now?

http://lifeexperencedegreesonline.com/?gclid=CMXf5rKaxJsCFZgU4wodvBLUCQ

 

[IRstuff]

The former is listed as an accredited university:

http://ope.ed.gov/accreditation/Ins...64743d372f372f3230303920323a35303a333720504d,

but note that the degrees offered are ET, not engineering, degrees.

The latter is not listed in the DOE database; surprise!

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Resume padding is not necessarily a bad thing, but it can certainly be taken to extreme levels. Someone who had minor interaction with a particular project but claims to have managed it could be simple padding or downright fraud... if the person has years of management experience, that's simple padding, but if they have never managed in their lives, that's more along the lines of fraud.

So how do diploma mills fit in there? If the guy has been doing the job competently for years, it's probably best considered stupidity on his part. Hiring may still be an option, but obviously a closer look at the candidate's experience/training is in order. It may even be beneficial to let the candidate know his resume contains highly questionable material (even if you don't want to immediately specify what that might be to see if he cops to it) and gauge his response. The answer may surprise and/or sway you.

If he would normally have no shot at the position without at least the experience of a 4-yr degree, then it's a more serious matter, particularly if the position's duties include safety-critical functions.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com