fulfilling job question 7

[roboticsguy]

Hi
I have a conumdrum, and I hoping to hear some insight from others who might have faced a similar situation. I realize that I am very fortunate to have this decision, but it is not an easy one!

I my present job is almost exactly my dream job, except for the pay. I work at a very small company, designing custom vehicles and equipment. We have an in-house machine shop where we fab all of my parts. Because of the size of the company, I have the opportunity to work on a large variety of projects, from mechanisms, structural components and hydraulic design. Never the same thing twice.

I recently purchased a house with the wife and 2 kids. We barely have the income to stay afloat, have a very minimal retirement savings (income too low for regular savings), no 401k etc. My schedule is very flexable to allow me time with the young kids. My present company is struggling financially, but I think there is great promise for future projects. But at the end of the day, this company does not exist to make a profit, so wages will always be under industry standard. The company exists to make cool stuff. We have 4 engineers, and a total of about 10 people on staff.

I have been here since graduating school 7 years ago. I am not too familiar with "the outside world" regarding other engineering jobs.

I have an opportunity to make considerably more money (~40%) doing something more on the industrial side. The new company has maybe 10 engineers,and ~200 total. If I did not have my present job, this oppurtunity would be very good; not a dream job doing robotics, but relatively interesting, with good benefits and pay.

so here is the question: have you had to make this type of decision? what did you do, and are you happy with your decision? Is it time for me to grow up (I'm 36 years old...) and work a real job, or will I regret "selling out" for the cash?

cheers, all!

 

[MiketheEngineer]

IMHO - ONLY you can make the decision.

Make a list with two columns - PRO & CON

Fill them out. Think it out. Talk to your wife. If gutsy enough talk to your boss about a raise.

Weigh the columns.

Make your call.

Good Luck. Been there - done that. I generally moved on..but not always. As they say "the devil you know...."

 

[IRstuff]

No one, at least no one who's telling the truth, has a crystal ball, either for themselves, or you. I'm not sure what you're expecting to get in the way of answers. There are 4 possibilities, two of which have negative outcomes, and the other two have positive outcomes.

I've certainly gone the route of ditching a low-pay/stock option deal. That company folded because its basic technology concept was not that well conceived, and the principal made some bad decisions. The road I did take turned out reasonably well.

There's no way I can promise that it'll turn out the same way for you; YMMV. Nonetheless, at some point in time, you do have to deal with the responsibilities of having a family and the attendant choices.

What happens if your present company folds in a year? Will you be able to get the same opportunity that you have now?

Realistically, the only possible regret is whether you have spent enough time with your family. All else is mostly secondary.

TTFN

FAQ731-376
Chinese prisoner wins Nobel Peace Prize

 

[roboticsguy]

thanks for your ideas gents. While I realize no one can tell me the "right" decision, I am very interested in others opionions and experiences.

IRstuff,
I really like your last line: "Realistically, the only possible regret is whether you have spent enough time with your family. All else is mostly secondary." I work less than a mile from home, and so can easily take lunches with the family etc. Kids grow up fast! The new job is not too far, though would require a car (~20 minute drive).

 

[btrueblood]

"But at the end of the day, this company does not exist to make a profit"...

Then it is not a company, it's a "non-profit". But it doesn't sound like that is strictly true, just that your company is small and struggling right now? Who is bringing in new projects/contracts, and can the rest of the company assist with that (marketing)?

I had almost the diametric opposite career path to yours, starting in a large corporation, and over the years have steadily moved to smaller and smaller companies, to find a place where the responsibilities and opportunities matched my talent (or lack of? whatever, say desires then). It meant setting my sights somewhat lower regarding monetary compensation, but was worth it I think. I also have lucked out in having ridden most of the latest housing boom on the uphill side, so the mortgage was never a real issue for us; however we waited on kids until the 2nd mortgage was paid off (14% interest rates had a way of focusing the mind). I guess this latter comment is that we found and lived a lifestyle that suited our income, not the opposite.

 

[roboticsguy]

bttrueblood, it should be a non-profit company... we are owned by a scientist, and the majority of our projects are science backed. We try to give (more than) fair prices to the interesting science projects. Science budgets are typically very limited.

I guess a follow-up question would be why did you move to smaller companies? for flexability? variable responsibilities? what did you dislike about larger co's?

cheers

 

[MiketheEngineer]

I have worked in both small companies (3 of them) and currently for a large one. Both have their pluses and minuses - I just work and like what I do. That's how I have picked my jobs. Do what you really like and it is not so much a job!!

 

[MikeHalloran]

The principal of the company can clearly afford to give away your work.

You cannot.

You are running out of money.


Leave.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[MintJulep]

Work to live, not the other way around.

 

[btrueblood]

Smaller companies generally had more opportunities for doing/learning a variety of tasks, from analysis to design to test and production. Larger companies I had worked at prior tended to segregate those functions amongst individuals and even departments.

 

[vandal06]

The gist I got from your post was that you love the job and the flexibility that it affords you, but your income is so low that you have no liquid savings, and barely a retirement account. For that reason alone I would leave and look for better pay. What would happen if a terrible medical bill came up that you weren't covered for? What if you lose your job? Conventional wisdom is to have a 3-9 month expense safety buffer in savings for rainy days. You don't have that, and the economy stinks. I don't mean to be alarmist, but I would be very uncomfortable having to support a family and not having anything saved.

 

[casseopeia]

I do not usually come down on the side of make more money vs doing something cool and having lots flexibility in my schedule. But I think you have put in a good chunk of time with the cool stuff. Its now time to move on and make some money. You will probably not have as much time with your kids, but you might just get lucky and manage to save enough for their college educations. I would think of it as a sacrifice for your children.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[GregLocock]

Nicely said Cass. Playing with fun projects for a low wage is an indulgence that a single guy can afford. Now you are a grown-up.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[Ron]

Agree with Greg and Cass. Your present company "doesn't exist to make a profit"...then it won't be around very long.

 

[tygerdawg]

Thought #1: Some might say that the duty of the husband & father would be to provide security & livelihood for his charges. Sometimes the cost of the salary level & benefits package to do so is a less-than-optimal job. You might have to consider hunkering down and getting on with it to support your family. That could mean a change to a position with a more appropriate compensation for your career point.

Thought #2: A fun job is great, but adequate compensation pays the bills. It sounds like your boss is getting a free ride out of you.

Thought #3: If you have seven years doing your dream job, it's conceivable that you have a wealth of experience that might be in demand. Perhaps you would consider freelancing on the side to augment your income. The rewards come with a price, tho....

Thought #4: When your kids turn 14, they will disown you anyway. They won't return until they're 23 or so. Use that time to further your career and skill set to maximize your income potential later on.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering

http://www.bluetechnik.com

 

[moltenmetal]

Don't give away your services, even if it's fun. You may think that the only person you're hurting is yourself and your family, but the damage goes further than that.

A lower-than-average wage is very different than a wage that's 40% below your market value. Someone is reaping the benefit of that difference. It may be your employer, or it may be their clients, but it isn't you.

If you do make a profit on a job, is that profit shared equitably? That also makes a difference.

If your current employer really is all about the fun, you need to talk with them about how much this fun is costing your family. Who knows: it could be that you're being paid so poorly only because you've never asked, or never asked in a credible way- i.e. it's been quite clear that you loved it there too much to ever consider leaving, regardless what they paid you.

A job paying 10-20% less than the market rate, but offering a great work environment, cool projects and lots of flexibility- that's a great deal, as long as you're both willing to live and capable of living within those means. If you're not, and you're borrowing from your own future to finance the present fun, it's a bad deal and you need to make some compromises.

It's not impossible to find a great work experience in a profitable company. In fact it's easier to find a truly great work experience in a profitable company than in one that makes none.

 

[btrueblood]

" it's easier to find a truly great work experience in a profitable company than in one that makes none. "

A star for that, Molten.

 

[roboticsguy]

great imput folks. All very helpful to my thought process. I don't want to paint a negative picture of my present company- I am not earning a market rate, but not being absolutely ripped off either. I am compensated approx 15-20% less than "market value" (as listed on salery.com). I have recieved regular generous raises(4x 10% and a 20%) based on my skill growth. Problem being that presently, business is very slow. when I purchased the home, the company was doing very well, and had anticipated ongoing raises.... that was over 2 years ago.

The other position is at a growing company, so they can afford to pay relatively well.

I have always looked at my pay rate as an investment in my continuing (practical) enducation and future. being paid with great, varied experience rather than cash.

I think part of my hesitance for this new position is that I had envisioned moving from my present job to a "NASA/ ferrari" type job. this new opportunity pays well, but it is not in robotics, and I worry it could limit my opportunities in robotics in the future.

And, moltenmetal, great way of putting it- Financially, I am borrowing from my family's future. I think I have hit that turning point where I have made a great investment in my skill set, but growth presently is slowing.

 

[KENAT]

"15-20% less than "market value" (as listed on salery.com)"

Well, I'd be hesitant to take 'salary.com' information as being too definitive, it seems to be weighted on the high side from what I've seen. So you're probably closer to being paid typical 'market value' than you think.

However, what you do have is apparently 40% higher than current position real data point.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[ShaggyPE]

Gaining some "big company" experience could benefit you and your current small company. Would you consider moving to the new company and maintaining contact to the current employer... maybe doing side work for him? At some point you might be inclined to go back and work for the small company with a whole new set of tools. This would also allow the small company to not be in such hardship while times are slow, but when things pick up, they would still have access to you (at a consultants rate).

-Dustin
Professional Engineer
Pretty good with SolidWorks