Gas Turbine Installation

[RotatingEng11]

Hi,
There will be GTG (55MW - Siemens) installation planned next month. Can you guys let me know the things / points to consider before the installation works begins. Although it will be supervised by the vendor representative but still want to make sure nothing important is missed.

 

[rotw]

There must have been a site commissioning / start-up plan and procedure for this equipment (and the process/plant unit it pertains to), which is normally a set of documentation reviewed and agreed by the vendor(s), the owner/user and the engineering company. This was the step where you were making sure "nothing important is missed". Guess you could start by digging into that documentation first.
If such a project specific documentation did not happen to exist, then you are going mostly by vendor standard. In that case, you could (ask for and) review Siemens installation procedures to get accustomed with it before activities at the plant would commence.

 

[RotatingEng11]

That's rotw for the reply. We did normally received the IOM manual of other packages from vendors but we have not received the IOM manual from Siemens. They informed that they do not provide it intentionally so that Customer doe not try to install it by themselves without the presence of their representative.

 

[rotw]

"They informed that they do not provide it intentionally so that Customer doe not try to install it by themselves without the presence of their representative."

This is not the way it is supposed to work. At first, an IOM document (as a minimum together with some other related procedures for site construction) shall be requested as part of the vendor document register at the time of the purchase order. It is to be reviewed and approved by the engineer / buyer, and usually this is before shipment. For a machine as complex as a GTG, this is very surprising - to say the least.

Another observations:

"They informed that they do not provide it intentionally so that Customer doe not try to install it by themselves without the presence of their representative."

To me this says a lot about the current level of "trust" between the parties...

 

[MFJewell]

If this situation is in fact correct, I would be looking for another OEM. Perhaps this is why Siemens is looking to exit the GT business. As an individual who has worked on several projects that involved gas turbine installations, I can say there is a lot wrong with what you have described. And I'll add we blacklisted Siemens from our supplier list.

 

[rotw]

MFJewell,

I doubt that they can switch to a different OEM at this point, this is usually a long lead item.
Even a vendor document register 100% per manufacturer standard policy, would include a final IOM copy to be sent to the buyer at delivery. There is nothing unusual here.

One hypothesis is that the competence of the buyer is questionable ; some OEM's will take advantage of the situation, some others would do but not beyond certain extent ; it boils down to how the OEM internal policies are complied with or not. At the end work ethics.

 

[MFJewell]

I doubt that they can switch to a different OEM at this point, this is usually a long lead item.

Depends, GE is starving for business and I'm sure MHPS/P&W would love more orders and with their swiftpacs, they can usually deliver quickly. It would also depend on what the cancellation penalty is with Siemens.

One hypothesis is that the competence of the buyer is questionable

Completely agreed. I question who is handling the engineering. Is it Siemens, the owner, an EPC, etc.? As you stated, this is all stuff that should have been hammered out a while ago.

 

[RotatingEng11]

Hi,

The IOM has been requested by the Contractor several times, but of no vain. Vendor just informed that the IOM will be provided but at later stage.Siemens informed that this policy is not client based, there were some incidents where the installations were not as per the procedure which led to performance guarantee issues.

 

[rotw]

The vendor document register is mutually agreed between the vendor and the buyer before signing any purchase order.

If a purchase order has been signed with critical documents (and even not critical documents) missing with respect to content and schedule, or without linking critical documents to liquidated damages, penalties or whatsoever enforceable measures, this means - without knowing the full story - the buyer does not know how to buy a (GTG) machine. Simple.