Generac Gensets vs The Rest 1

[X49]

Does anybody have experience with these gas gensets in the 50-250kW range? As a consulting engineer, I normally specify Cummins gensets for my clients, and have accepted Kohler and Caterpillar gensets as equal products, but I am not confident in the Generac gensets.

Their 70kW set has a 6.8L engine spinning 1800rpm (Same as the equivalent Cummins set), while their 150kW set has the same engine spinning 3600rpm to get the required output. This doesn't really seem like great engineering practice to me. I would even be hesitant to specify an 1800rpm Generac unit. Caterpillar Olympian gensets are the same, as they are rebranded Generacs.

Any opinions?

 

[waross]

Prime power, critical power, standby, waste recovery, number of hours per day, or year.
For an occasional use standby set, cheapest is most often what the customer demands. 3600RPM is usually cheapest.
For a high hour, critical set, I would want to know what what operating life I could expect between overhauls. Also the price of a one source overhaul kit.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

 

[wayne440]

I found out yesterday that one of "my" Generacs (a 100kw diesel) has broken down and sole source repair parts are not available. The set is 7 years old. The only good thing I can say is that I had no part in the decision-making process when it was purchased.

I have considerable experience (most as an end-user and payer of the bills) with sets from all 4 of the mentioned makers. Based on this, I would rather have a 20 year old set made by three of those companies than a new one made by the forth.

 

[rbulsara]

It is probably unfair to compare without knowing application. Besides getting you get what you pay for, there are applications that can afford some outages, even if they say they can't.

Like cell towers, failure of one of the towers is not a complete disaster, vs. say a data center. Even hospitals, contrary to common belief they can tolerate a momentary outage vs. a data center.

But there can always be personal preferences, based on many other factors. My pet peeve is the service and quality of field service technicians/engineers and the factory support. Only one of the mfrs. you mentioned excels in that regard, in my area. Although any one of them can be made to work. Also investigate and find out where the engines are made and their serviceability. Although in smaller sizes, it should be lesser of an issue.




Rafiq Bulsara

http://www.srengineersct.com

 

[dpc]

I agree with Rafiq. Generator manufacturers, like most other suppliers must provide products that customers want to buy. This generally involves both low-cost products for non-critical applications where first-cost is a major factor, to higher quality products designed for heavy use over long periods of time in critical applications.

It's a little like the difference between an inexpensive open-drip-proof commercial grade motor and a TEFC severe-duty motor.

With engine-generators, higher speed generally means lower costs and more maintenance, everything else being equal.

David Castor

http://www.cvoes.com

 

[DanEE]

Also investigate and find out where the engines are made and their serviceability. Although in smaller sizes, it should be lesser of an issue.

That's also the reason we have stuck with Cummins/Onan..

And the fact that we have a Cummins Service Center close by that we can call out for any type of engine problem.

The natural gas 40kw - 60kw gensets (which is what we mostly deal with) have stuck with the Ford industrial engines. Nearby support means a lot.

I've heard that Generac changes engine suppliers fairly often and you never know which engine you are going to get on a generator.. No direct experience however since we've stayed with Cummins.

 

[wayne440]

Generac did at one time try to make it difficult to determine exactly who furnished engines to them, to the point of having engines for small sets made with nothing except an in house model number. I do not know if this is still the case, since I haven't purchased one in many years.

 

[catserveng]

Before CAT cameout with the Olympian line a lot of US CAT dealers we also Generac dealers, the dealership I worked at was one. Generac units can be ok, depends on what you ask of them. We had several in our rental fleet for contractor rental, in genenral they did ok, but we never would invest in a major repair on them, use them up, then get rid of them. Of course we did the same with Multiquip units.

We sold a lot into the standby market, very few gave us problems, but they usually went into shopping centers and mostly non-critical applications.

My biggest complaints with them, the engine of the week thing, even made it hard to find filters just to do routine maintenance sometimes. We were spolied, we were used to a premium product with very good documentation and parts support. We had many of the same complaints when the Olympian line came out (and most people I know still are having those kinds of issues with the Olympians).

They make power fairly reliably, you'll not likey find them cost effective to do a major repair on. Their controls are pretty simple, and forgiving.

We sold a bunch in Hawaii, kinda a biodegrable product, they mostly died of cancer in about 3 years, but so did a lot of other brands.

If you want a cheap generator you'll only test run about 20 hours a year, and not likely have many outages like in Southern Calif, then they aren't a bad choice for a lot of applications. If you really need to depend on it, then go with a brand you have a good working relationship with the dealer with and be willing to pay something above lowest price.

All the generator manufacturers in the US are cutting costs, I personally don't think any of the current generators are as robust and reliable as they were 10 years ago. But I have customers who love and hate all the major manufacturers, based on their own experience and applications.

I think Rafiq hits the nail on the head, if a dealer or distributor has excellent technical sales and service staff with good factory support, I think you'll find their customer base has a high opinion of the product. I know CAT dealerships who have terrible standby product reputations because they have a small power business and usually a tractor mechanic is trying to service the generator after a tractor salesman sold it, another dealer can sell the same product with great success.

My two cents worth.

 

[krbernier]

we recently got a 70kw generac. i wanted a cat but the bean counters said save money. It has a John Deere motor in it. so far it has had no issues. hopefully it lasts as long as the 100kw cat/olympian we have had for 15 years

 

[waross]

Is that diesel or gas krbernier?
I have had excellent service out af a couple of dozen Olympians with Perkins power under another marque.) I just reinstalled one which I originally installed about 17 years ago. Still going strong.
(Diesel Olympians are rebranded F.G. Wilson sets.) (Cat now owns F.G. Wilson)

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

 

[JIMGEN]

We have worked on many different brand names of generator sets for more than 35 years.

I can offer a few comments as follows:

Caterpillar-
The SR4(Magnetek) required more power to excite
than Marathon (for example) so the AVR was more expensive,
early versions had the bridge inboard so all service work had to be done through the side cover while Marathon had their diode assembly hanging on the rotor end which made it easy to change the exciter stator and rotor. The Caterpillar digital panels were a joke. (And still are) I don't know how many 7C1000 (Redco) Cat panels we junked. Cat used to have reconditioned units and now I am not sure if even new replacements are available. If new units are available then you better have a thick wallet. As I recall there were over two dozen relays on the back of the digital screen alone.

Kohler-
Remember the gen ends with the electric eye controls. We had a bunch of those with melted copper after the stator melted down due to that silly device. Remember the cheap sheet metal screws Kohler used to assemble the gen end enclosure. That's impressive for low quality. Do they still use sheet metal screws?

Generac-
Yes Generac changed engines at will and would label the engines proprietary. All so Generac could charge excessively for replacement parts.

I believe that all of the majors have deliberately designed their generator sets to increase profits on replacement parts and serviceability.
I think that packagers actually do a better job of providing value since these sets are constructed of off the shelf components.
For example, currently in my opinion the DeepSea control panel is the best on the market. They are reasonably priced ,very reliable and user friendly.

While we assemble new sets we also purchase new sets that are constructed with non proprietary components only.

 

[krbernier]

the 70kw generac i just got is diesel. although i just notice an olympian we had installed at one of out pump stations is also a generac not a cat as our other olympian was