General rant - early career burnout 13

[bugbus]

Lately I have been pretty disheartened with my job. I'm a structural engineer with around 6-7 years of experience, and now am finding myself with an ever-increasing amount of responsibility and juggling an ever-growing workload. Work/life balance is a thing of the past. Weekend work is basically a given for me these days. During busy periods, it is not uncommon for me to have to work multiple weekends in a row without a break just to meet project deadlines. Recently, I worked 26 days straight (i.e., 4 standard work weeks and 3 weekends in between). Of course, the reward for all this extra effort seems to be just more work and responsibility. It does not feel sustainable at all. It also does not help when direct managers have a similar workload and seem to view it as a point of pride - hard to complain about workload and work/life balance when it is just the culture at the company.

At the same time, there are others who put in the minimum required effort and consistently underperform, and simply fly under the radar. Rather than deal with this directly, the workload simply gets shifted to others. The workload is so unfairly apportioned in my company that while I am working back-to-back weekends, there are others who are given just 1-2 days' billable work per week.

I also don't believe the situation is better anywhere else. I switched jobs a few years ago and found the new job to be even worse, so eventually decided to go back to the previous job.

The other part of my rant is just about the nature of the work itself. I got into engineering in the first place because I like solving challenging, technical problems and finding creative solutions to these. I was probably a little naive about what an engineering career actually involved when I first started out. These days, I would say that easily 80-90% of my time and mental effort is spent on basically everything other than the core 'engineering' part of my job. Endless meetings, business development/writing proposals, reports, managing (very demanding) clients, invoicing/billing, project management, dealing with bureaucracy, ever-changing project requirements, huge coordination effort with other disciplines/consultants/contractors. None of that stuff is really enjoyable or rewarding to me. When the opportunity arises for some interesting technical work to be done, it is often just handed off to more junior staff with lower billing rates.

When I look at the toll this job takes on me, and the amount of effort and time I've invested to get to where I am in my career, and the sheer responsibility involved, the reward just doesn't stack up. E.g., being a tradesperson with a similar amount of experience pays practically the same as an engineer, at least where I live.

I'm sure my situation is not unique. I've seen other similar posts on this forum. Just curious about how people have dealt with this kind of thing in the past.

 

[SWComposites]

Are you getting paid for all this extra time? If not, then find another job. Its not worth the burnout. If you are, then take a long vacation to heal yourself.

Have a frank conversation with your managers about what work you want to do. Also have a frank conversation about why work isn’t better distributed. If it doesn’t go well, then find another job.

Life is way too short to hate your job and be burned out, particularly if not compensated. You have an engineering degree, there are many things you can do with it. Look for different types of companies, different sizes, and even different industries.

 

[bugbus]

No, there is no additional pay for the weekend work. Most employment contracts here have a 'reasonable overtime' clause, meaning your employer can direct you to work additional time outside your standard hours. What constitutes 'reasonable overtime' is probably up for debate.

I agree with your comment though, I think I need to discuss with management and set some clearer boundaries.

Thanks for the response.

 

[JD P.E.]

Assuming you’re licensed it sounds like you know how the business works and you should investigate opening up your own shop. Don’t forget a good portion of your billable hour is profit. There’s nothing wrong with that either from an employee/employer perspective but it is on the table if you open up shop.

 

[LittleInch]

From what you say you're prob just under 30?

That's when companies have this annoying tendency to just keep heaping work on the good people until they break. The old saying is if you want something done, find the busiest person in the office and give it to them.

Your phrase " Of course, the reward for all this extra effort seems to be just more work and responsibility." is exactly correct. Once managers see that you internalise the demands and just bend over and do what needs to be done, they will continue doing it until you stop or leave or get sick.

The only way to stop this is to realise a few things.

1) You are actually a lot more valuable to the company than you think. 6-7 years in, you're prob capable of working hard, producing good output, relatively cheap, but able to just be given stuff and you get on with it, not keep coming back saying how do i do this or that. That is very valuable to a company and they know it.
2) The only thing the company can actually do to you is fire you. You will never be responsible financially unless you do something illegal.
3) The company is only out for itself. They might have some nice words and systems, but in the end you are a human resource to be worked as flat out as possible just as much as a machine is only making money when its operating.

SO start by reclaiming your weekends. Mark at least two out of three on your calendar with a big red X and do the same in your work teams calendar and then say, Sorry, I can't come in or finish this over the weekend as I've got other plans made. Do NOT explain what they are or justify your right to this time off. "Overtime" to me, unless they are paying me extra, means an earlier start and stay until 6 or 7. Anything more than 10 hours a day and your productivity goes in the bin. So no more than 10-15% extra per week is "reasonable" and on a non regular basis. And start to record it for use later on when you claim a pay rise or want some PTO.

The second is to work out who's giving the work out. If its several then play them off against each other and make their problem (too much work to do) stay their problem. So "I would love to do this, however xxx has told me to complete this by Friday. If you (yyy) want to discuss that with him or her (xxx) then please do, but otherwise it will need to wait until Monday..." Don't internalise or take on other peoples problems. Same thing if its the same person - get them to prioritise, not just take it.

As to the work itself, this tends to happen. But there are usually two career paths in consulting - the "technical" engineering route or the managerial one. sounds to me like you're getting pushed into the second and the only way to resolve that is to bring it up regularly with whoever gives the work out, or whoever is the technical "guru" in your office and cosy up to him or her (not literally, that will get you fired nowadays). And keep your eye out for other roles either internally or externally - a recruiter might be worth while selling your soul to to see what is out there.

don't give up, many of us went through similar phases, but you do need to stick to whatever rules you come up with and sometimes just turn the lap top off and walk out.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[BulbTheBuilder]

I love this post and star for you, LittleInch.

That's when companies have this annoying tendency to just keep heaping work on the good people until they break.

I have found myself in a similar situation, but I don't manage people unlike OP. In the beginning, I used to 40-45 hours getting all my work done efficiently as I don't often be chit-chatting and playing around like other colleagues for most of the day. Management was like, "you are doing a great a job" and all other accolades you can think of to the point I now work on almost every single project in the office. However, performance review day came, and they pointed out I don't work "enough", and I am doing the "bare minimum" because others are working +50 even 60 hours and I am only doing 45 hours, so I have to work more. I was SHOCKED and YES SHOCKED when I learned someone has been working 60hours on a project I have been doing the engineering with my charge time being only 23-30hours for the project, and I know for a fact they did nothing on that project. And if you are wondering, there was no administrative or management required for that project at that time. To cut it short, basically, there's no reward for being "good" at your job and work hard as people were rewarded for just the extra time. To management, those people are working more.

One thing I haven't enjoyed so far is being brought later on projects mostly getting to deadlines, something I have complained about. I was eavesdropping and heard one of the bosses say, I am fast and can get the job earlier and better compared to some folks.

It is great to learn how to navigate this, 10hr max per day for me now and no more weekends moving forward. I don't have much "power" to not say NO but I will try my best. I have already started looking around hopefully next week, I will jump ship when I think I have found a good place. Don't just want to jump for jumping sake.

The second is to work out who's giving the work out. If its several then play them off against each other and make their problem (too much work to do) stay their problem. So "I would love to do this, however xxx has told me to complete this by Friday. If you (yyy) want to discuss that with him or her (xxx) then please do, but otherwise it will need to wait until Monday..." Don't internalise or take on other peoples problems. Same thing if its the same person - get them to prioritise, not just take it.

I am now learning this. I haven't been great at this. I will try this idea out

3) The company is only out for itself. They might have some nice words and systems, but in the end you are a human resource to be worked as flat out as possible just as much as a machine is only making money when its operating.

Learned that the hard way recently. I am glad for all the experience because I have learned a lot in life and how companies operate.

 

[cranky108]

You said 6-7 years, could also have a little of the 7 year itch. Might do you some good to see what other companies offer.

 

[AZPete]

Why all the talk about jumping ship? How about taking control of your time and being matter of fact about it.

Decide what "reasonable OT" is and then advise mgmt about it. When the weekly limit is reached, you are done for the week.

Let them initiate any adversarial stance--not you. If they respond with discourtesy, then you are on notice that your employer truly does not have your interests in any priority, and you are then able to seek out another. But, don't just walk without going through that discovery. You might find that they see more value in you for being bold enough to take your life back.

 

[LittleInch]

Also I didn't realise the OP was based in Australia.

I thought the labour laws and employee rights were quite good there, at least compared to the US....

Bulb - glad you liked what I said - I know its a lot easier to write it down from afar and each situation is different, but I've always taken the view that if people are constantly doing things or large amounts of (unpaid) overtime outside their "normal" working hours and constantly being the operative word, then they are either not efficient, not competent or are just not pushing back enough when people are giving out work and imposing deadlines.

And yes, most of the time "mgt" have no real idea what people are doing and the only thing they can see or control is time spent doing "work", not how efficient or "good" they are.

But in any workplace, it becomes apparent after a while who people want to work on their project and who they resist.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[RenHen]

I'm in about the same place in my career & was in a similar position a few years ago, though definitely not nearly as dire as what you're describing; that sounds absolutely miserable. A prior company I worked for wanted me to work more than I wanted to (45-50 hours/week & some weekend work, overtime paid at my hourly rate), had an unhealthy culture around overworking and had me involved in a lot of managerial tasks that I wasn't interested in. They did end up creating formalized technical/managerial tracks for advancement within the company while I was on my way out, which probably would've helped with not loving the work itself, but it was too late for me by then. I ended up moving over to work in-house for a contractor; they have project managers, estimators and other executives on staff that handle nearly all of the managerial/bureacratic work & meetings and while I'm sure there will be some emergency that necessitates it someday, so far (~3 years in) I have not been called outside of the work day nor asked to work more than 40 hours a week. My PTO isn't amazing but I can live with that being my only complaint.

Companies with technical tracks and reasonable expectations on your time might be harder to find, but they are definitely out there. I would echo the recommendation for putting boundaries in place with your current employer and use some of that saved time to seek out opportunities more aligned with what you want. Best of luck!

 

[JD P.E.]

Only reason I suggested opening shop was this comment:

When I look at the toll this job takes on me, and the amount of effort and time I've invested to get to where I am in my career, and the sheer responsibility involved, the reward just doesn't stack up. E.g., being a tradesperson with a similar amount of experience pays practically the same as an engineer, at least where I live.

You may want to work things out with your current employer and make that work. That could be a good path. Just give yourself the courtesy of considering if you worked all this OT on your own business where you might be. When I feel discouraged about it being worth it I ask myself if my salary was doubled, would it be worth it. Of course to some extent it is diminishing returns because you shouldn't sacrifice your family or health. However, in my opinion, if you are a strong engineer with 6-7 years of exp, open your own shop and it DOESN'T work in a year, you are still very hirable.

To comment a little on the tradesperson pay... this is a fact of today due to how society treated that path decades ago. I personally have made substantially more money (double my eng salary) running a handyman side business than I made working at my last engineering job. The ONLY reason I didn't do that full time is because I wasn't a licensed PE yet and I knew I'd make more in the long run OWNING a firm rather than owning a handyman business.

Just don't ever forget you are in complete control of your day today and tomorrow. Sometimes as an employee it is easy to forget that. Hope you find your way here.

 

[BulbTheBuilder]

Why all the talk about jumping ship? How about taking control of your time and being matter of fact about it.

In my case, we have had a high turnover if the past 2-3 years. I have been hoping for things to turn around as I enjoy the exposure and projects I work on, but I don't see myself developing as I almost working "random" items and rotating thru projects quickly. Management hasn't been the best as well so in my scenario I either jump ship or I stay and drown.

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I would like to add that I am paid for overtime at my hourly rate (1.0x), nonetheless, the excessive overtime and weekends aren't something I find healthy especially when considering work-life balance. Our rates are typically below market rates so averaging a 50hour/week puts you closer to market value.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

[DrZoidberWoop]

Not sure if it's applicable, but becoming financially independent from my job (aka paid-off mortgage and vehicle) made a world of difference in my willingness to negotiate and stand up for myself. Things like that add a lot of background stress, leading to burnout.

 

[phamENG]

LittleInch is spot on. Employment is a two way street, especially in the professional services industry. You're not some easily replaceable, unskilled body on an assembly line. You have to take agency for yourself and stand up for yourself.

I will say, though, that culture is very hard to change. Only the best leaders can manage it and even then only with a lot of determination. It often means finding the bad apple(s) causing the rot in the rest of the bunch and disposing of it(them).

 

[bugbus]

OP here, just want to say thanks for all the responses so far. I do take the time to read all of them, but I won't get a chance to respond to them individually. But it has been a good discussion so far. Without getting into specifics, branching out on my own is really not an option for me at this point, so I will need to make do with where I currently am. I think the main point everyone has made is it's really up to me to draw a line in the sand and maybe negotiate for some better conditions (hours/pay/etc). I'll certainly think about that and try to discuss with management.

 

[SWComposites]

Yep, I concur with LittleInch and the others. You have to manage your career yourself, and part of that is managing your workload. No one else cares about your career and well being (except maybe your parents and significant other). Certainly not any HR dept, and not likely your managers.

 

[geotechguy1]

Your company is not your family, your boss is not your friend. They do not care about you, they care about profits. There may be many layers of niceties and meaningless words and HR BS but all of that is a ruse / trick.

If you get hit by a bus on the way to work tomorrow, they will have your job posted the next day.

Start looking out for number 1, which is you. Don't work weekends. Advocate for a higher salary. Decline additional work and push back when you don't have time available. Apply for new jobs and 'start fresh' - usually companies will just keep dumping responsibilities on you and then only very slowly and begrudgingly give raises unless you have leverage over them; generally it's easier to just switch jobs.

Also, don't forget to poop on company time.

 

[Euler07]

I was in your same situation earlier in my career, in a large Australian consulting firm. We had compulsory 9pm finish on Thursdays on top of all the other overtime. I can give the following observations:

- Unpaid overtime is 100% profit for the company. It is a culture in the large firms to push this, and they will try and normalise it. The younger engineers will tend to go along with it since it is all they have experienced.
- The company will always accept more work than they can handle. It doesn't matter how much staff they have.
- If you tell your manager you are not wanting to do so much overtime, they will say "We are looking for more staff. Just hang in there a while longer and we will relieve you of the overtime soon. We can't tell you exactly when but soon you won't have to do so much once the new staff has been hired". Then in 6 months when you're still doing the overtime they will say "We haven't been able to find the right staff to do the job. We're looking all over for more staff and once we find them then your overtime will be over. We understand it's difficult, but just hang in there a while longer and we'll cut your overtime soon..."
- New staff are always treated better than existing staff. Even though it's irrational, it seems to be just human nature.
- During high work loads, such as now, it is generally better to switch companies since you will be treated better at the next company.

Regarding the type of work, different companies have different focus. I would find a company that focuses solely on design and then apply to go there. If you want to stay at the company, then your best bet is talking directly to your manager and be persistent about it. Don't take no for an answer, and demand the change immediately, not in 6 months (which is the manager's language for 'never').

 

[mtu1972]

I can sympathize with many of the comments and observations noted above. My first two jobs I was paid hourly and worked a lot of overtime. We were only paid our hourly rate for the overtime hours.

The second company was a design/build firm that was bought by a European competitor that had an US presence. They systematically shut down our offices across the US.

Third and fourth jobs I was salaried and still worked a lot of overtime. Because of my previous experience, I kept track of my hours and when I got my year end bonus, it never equaled my overtime hours times my hourly pay.

Fourth company was a paper manufacturer and we had four structural engineers on staff. Two of us put in lots of hours and the other two were working slightly over 40 hours per week. Guess who got more projects when they assigned next year’s projects each November. They were bought by another European firm, who did not have in-house engineering so they downsized most of us. Transferred some ME’s and EE’s to the individual mills and kept a handful (including the other SE, as he was there before me) to act as project managers to direct consultants on future projects.

After that I only worked hourly.

gjc

 

[LittleInch]

The other trick is to tell, don't ask.

So e.g. you go into your manager and say "I'm going to take Friday off or I'm not working past 5pm this week." Then they have to say no and why.

Or "By the way I'm not going to be contactable this weekend so I'll see you on Monday." Don't explain or give anyone the chance to pull it apart.

If you went in and said "Is it ok if I do.... or Can I ... " then it gives them a decision to make and saying yes leaves the door open to everyone and puts the responsibility on them. Just telling them means they don't need to actually make a decision.

Most people, including managers, just want an easy life and making decisions is hard for a lot of people. If they don't actually need to respond then life is easier.

Also I don't know how your time sheet system works, but I used to always tell the truth. So if I di 12 hours two days running that's what I put down and then booked 2 on Friday. Total 40 hrs, everyone happy. Some managers like dto have it neat and say put 8 hrs a day and I always refused because then you're committing that to writing and if someone went looking for you on fri pm and you weren't there, but your time sheet said you were then you're in trouble. So a bit like a golfer signing his score card. If he said he had 4 strokes on hole 9 and 5 on hole 10, but it was the other way around, they get disqualified even though the total remains the same.

Depends on what they do with the data as to whether you can record all this OT but not get paid or billed to the project or client. but start to have your own shadow time sheet system for use later....

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.