Generator Battery Poll 1

[itsmoked]

In your experience what's the mix on emergency generators and pumps for starting energy storage.

Battery voltage: 12 or 24V?
Battery type: Lead Acid or NiCd?
Any other relevant points?

If the batteries are 24V are their Amp-Hr ratings proportionally reduced from their 12V brethren?

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.-

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[catserveng]

On larger engines, typically with starting HP requirements over 40 HP you will see two electric starters, mainly because the standard frame DC electric starters are between 30 and 40 HP. Air start motors can provide higher power in a smaller frame. Some critical systems, like shipboard emergency units, use redundent systems, like 24VDC on one side and air or hydraulic start on the other.

We have run across spring starters, as a company we will not install or service them anymore due to some near misses by service technicians doing disassembly and assmebly on them. In my experience they are not reliable in the long term, and are a real bear to repair properly.

We also still get a call once in a while for AC starters, usually 480 VAC, but the expense and energy storage issues make them less attractive.

Every fire pump package we sell goes out with both an engine mounted alternator and an AC powered charger, according to our sales guy, the charger has to be run off an emergency circuit in the plant if available, and has to be able to provide charging and operating current. As I understand it, electronically controlled engines are currently being evaluated for fire pump applications. This is currently about the last market for mechanical engines in strict emissions areas, and we see the end is near for just about any mechanically controlled diesel engine. I don't keep up with all of the regulatory issues, but I know this is one looming here pretty quick.

How about a communications option on your new charger, almost all new engine products today are using network communications, either MODBUS RTU or J1939? Having your parameters, status and alarms available on a network would allow easier integration into monitored systems. Doesn't replace the hard wire points, but allows us to bring data in in systems where we have comprehensive HMI systems.

 

[BJC]

Whats the number of engines you would have before going to an air starting system? Has any one ran the numbers? The air starter I have seen seem to work very well. I have seen trucks with both an air and electric starter. That I think was because air worked better in cold climates.

 

[JBinCA]

Kieth,

What does the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) have to do with battery charging?

JB

 

[itsmoked]

Most interesting folks.

Some seriously good ideas floating about your noggins.

bogeyman; If our cars had spring starters they're be a heck of a lot less driving here and there..

catserveng; Thanks for the network suggestion.

I know what you mean about servicing spring-energy systems. While in high school I was a concrete truck mechanic. Of course truck emergency brakes are all long thick coil springs crammed into small canisters. I always marveled at what unscrewing one single small ring-clamp bolt could lead to.

BJC; I hear air starters on delivery trucks several times a week in front of my office. I think they're cool. In fact they are cool(!) getting cold during a start instead of the opposite with an electric starter.

JBinCA; NAFTA NFPA what's the difference?

No wonder I couldn't find any pertinent information in there!

Ahhh, you're supposed to read what I mean not what I write.

Thanks. Good catch.

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.-

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[powerwagon75]

Keith,

For what it's worth, all the diesel-driven fire pump systems I've ever worked on have dual battery systems; ie, 2 individually charged and operated 12 volt batteries for a 12 volt system, and two sets of batteries (series/24V) for the 24 volt systems (also, two separate chargers). I believe the fire pump controller manufacturers are required to have battery failure sensing and automatic battery switch-over provisions in their equipment to meet NPFA requirements. Two large separate starter-drive solenoids keep the battery B+ sides isolated from each other.

eric