Generic questions regarding SE exam 7

[AtlAC]

I happen to live in Georgia when for me to get a PE license I have to take and pass the 16-hour SE exam. I have just a few generic questions that I figured people on this board might be able to answer. I've looked through these boards many times for work, just never signed up to post before.

1. How many hours do people generally put in for studying? I realize everyone is different but I've been studying now for about 2-2.5 months which consists of 1.5-2 hours per night 4 days a week during the weekdays and then 4-6 hours each day on Saturday and Sunday.

2. Is the NCEES practice exam a fair representation of the actual exam? Easier? Harder?

3. Has anyone ever used the ppi2pass book "Structural Engineering Solved Problems, comprehensive practice for the SE and Civil PE exams" by C. Dale Buckner? The problems seem fairly difficult in comparison to NCEES practice problems, the ppi2pass practice exam, and questions in the SERM. I'm just curious if the problems in this book are indicative to those in the exam?

Thanks in advance to anyone who answers.

 

[Lomarandil]

I probably ended up studying somewhere between 120-150 hours. Was able to pass both bridge segments first go round. Who knows how close I was to the pass/fail cutoff, but I came out of the test confident that I passed at least one of the two, and that I might have passed both just depending how my educated guesses fell.

(That said, I have always been a good test taker and still have decent study habits). I felt that the SE was much more of a time crunch than the PE, so good testing skills and strategies certainly helped. In fact, I was a little surprised at how many of the questions could be "gamed" by logically eliminating responses.

Strategy wise, I sorted all of the multiple choice questions at the beginning by subject -- that kept me from flipping back and forth between references, and allowed me to focus on the subjects I was strongest on.

----
The name is a long story -- just call me Lo.

 

[Parkite]

As a three time failure I'm not sure what advice I can give, but here it goes.

1. How many hours do people generally put in for studying?
-300 hours if one have some background experience in it. If one has experience it can reduce this time dramatically, especially for the lateral stuff.

2. Is the NCEES practice exam a fair representation of the actual exam? Easier? Harder?
-It is a previous test so it is one of the best representations of it. Also, some of the questions have a way of being reused so you might see some of hte morning multiple choice questions on your exam.

3. Has anyone ever used the ppi2pass book "Structural Engineering Solved Problems, comprehensive practice for the SE and Civil PE exams" by C. Dale Buckner? The problems seem fairly difficult in comparison to NCEES practice problems, the ppi2pass practice exam, and questions in the SERM. I'm just curious if the problems in this book are indicative to those in the exam?
-No, the "Structural Eng Solved Problems" is comically/tragically more difficult than the exam. I went through most of that book and I felt it did more damage than good because it encourages "nuking" the question.

 

[BAretired]

Congratulations AtlAC on passing your exams. There are so many aspects to the study of structural engineering that it must be very difficult to know what to study. Fortunately for me, I did not have to go through that process after graduation, and I suspect I would not be able to pass a 16 hour exam at this time, even after more than fifty years of relevant experience, but I do admire the dedication shown by young engineers seeking SE registration. Good work!

BA

 

[swearingen]

Question: Has anyone ever taken the PPI2Pass classes? If so, how were they?


-5^2 = -25 ;-)

http://www.eng-tips.com/supportus.cfm

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

Question: Has anyone ever taken the PPI2Pass classes? If so, how were they?

I teach 1/2 of the PPI course. Ask 20 engineers how they thought of the class and you'll get 20 different responses. However, this spring we had a majority favorable response to the course evaluation so I'd say most people found the course useful.

I think the biggest thing will be what do you want out of the course? Have you taken the 16 hour SE exam before? Also, bridges or buildings?

Professional Engineer (ME, NH, MA) Structural Engineer (IL)
American Concrete Industries

https://www.facebook.com/AmericanConcrete/

 

[swearingen]

I'd like to speed up with the course. Tips, tricks, and tables that I may have heard of but never used. I have taken the exam and for the first time in my life, ran out of time on an exam. It was the buildings version.


-5^2 = -25 ;-)

http://www.eng-tips.com/supportus.cfm

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

I'd like to speed up with the course. Tips, tricks, and tables that I may have heard of but never used. I have taken the exam and for the first time in my life, ran out of time on an exam. It was the buildings version.

Hmmmm, that's a tough one. In that I mean I don't know how well I can objectively suggest something for you in that regard. I'm sure pretty much every course has tips and tricks they give. In the interest of not trying to advertise for PPI on the board I'll try to be as objective as I can, but just like Josh on here works for RISA, neither of us can be truly objective.

I suppose I'll just tell you how I feel in my opinion the PPI course would help you in that regard. First off, I regularly try to put my own personalized input on useful tables, handy reference documents, and other items of note that I found useful during my own studies and exam experience, or what others have pointed out was useful for them. We often reference useful documents as well that you may not have (SEAOC volume 1, PCA Notes on ACI 318, masonry TEK notes, etc.) and we will point out key tables and references in the texts you have that you may not normally use in practice (for example you might normally have a spreadsheet for those). The final thing I personally do is I've created a number of quick reference documents and flowcharts for various topics that I felt were common enough on the exam but had limited pre-made quick references that filled those areas. For example, I've attached a very useful flowchart I made for ELF procedure per ASCE 7-10 (disclaimer: don't sue me if it has an error and you fail the exam or use it in real design work... I'm fairly confident it's 100% correct but nobody is perfect).

All that said, the PPI course doesn't focus entirely on tips and tricks. That wouldn't make sense. People of all skills and backgrounds take the exam, both buildings and bridge engineers. Thus, we spend a lot of time on getting people familiar with common core elements of various structural materials. Overall you'll likely find much of the course is basic review. The other main component is self-study. The course can only cover so much. Self-study is always going to far outweigh the work in most review courses (EET is the one crazy exception I've heard, someone told me they put a ridiculous amount of contact hours into their course). Some people like the PPI courses approach and feel the course really helps them push themselves and stay on schedule. Others feel it's not detailed enough or that it's too basic. As I said in my previous post, ask 20 engineers who take the course...

From the above I'd make your own judgement if the PPI course sounds useful to you.

One final thing. We did a survey recently of exam takers and while I can't release the details yet (and the sample size wasn't big enough and was only from this Spring) the vertical course takers pass rate was significantly greater than the NCEES average rate. Clearly we're doing something right there.

Professional Engineer (ME, NH, MA) Structural Engineer (IL)
American Concrete Industries

https://www.facebook.com/AmericanConcrete/

 

[DETstru]

I took and passed both in the same test cycle and I kept track of my study hours. I don't recall everything but... I had it all written down and in spreadsheet form so here goes:

Total study duration: 99 days
Study days: 81
Days off: 18 days
Total hours: 206 hours

The first thing I did was compile references and create a study calendar based on what I thought I needed to study most ( I stuck to this VERY strictly. It was the only way I could stay on track).

I created the following categories and associated number of days required to study them:

Analysis (3 weeks)
Steel (2 weeks)
Concrete (2 weeks)
Foundations (0.5 weeks)
Masonry (1 week)
Wood (2 weeks)
Bridge (2 weeks)
Review (1.5 weeks)

I studied everything in order of what I already understood best (so wood and bridge were last because I understood them least and wanted them most fresh). At the end I reviewed everything for 1-2 days per material and took a day of rest before the exams.

I purchased/borrowed/downloaded all the required codes (except the AASHTO, I used one version old, it didn't matter)
The most important additional references were the SERM, PPI sample questions, NCEES sample questions, SEAOC manuals, and my own cheat sheets that I made for common design elements for each code.

I read the code references pretty thoroughly and highlighted/tabbed/annotated what I could. I studied basically the entire SERM and did every practice question in both practice books I had (FYI, both have mistakes and I noticed many. there are errata documents posted by both PPI and NCEES, find them on their respective websites).
I categorized all the practice questions in both books by the categories listed above and studied them with each new category.

By the end, I felt very confident in myself but not so much after walking out of the test. I literally used every second of the 16 hours (as did everyone else in the room). I was sure I would fail at least one day by the end of it.

During the test there is not much time, if any, to refer to examples. Some of the multiple choice questions are very long and it takes long enough to just get the code equations/values/references to solve the problem. If you don't already know how to solve it you're going to have trouble finishing. There are also a lot of questions that try to trick you with odd scenarios.

The NCEES practice exam "felt" like the real exam but lacked the "trick" element.
The PPI practice exam had longer problems than the real exam, so it felt "harder," but it also lacked the "trick" element.

I found that if I didn't immediately know how to do a problem I would skip it and focus on problems I already knew how to do. I ended up guessing on a handful each day due to time constraints but they were problems I didn't know how to do anyway and left for the end.

The written portion is easier in my opinion. There are many parts/aspects to each problem so you have a lot of wiggle room to explain yourself and "engineer" a solution whether or not you're 100% capable to solve that particular problem. I still used the full time each day during the written portion.

Anyway, I was pleasantly surprised when I found out I passed both. I would've been happy with passing one day but somehow it all worked out.

I'm sure I can say more on the subject but back to work...

 

[P1ENG]

GA does not require you to take the SE exam to become a licensed engineer (even if you want to focus in structural). The Civil exam is sufficient. The only (2) states that require you pass the structural engineering exam to do any structures is IL and HI. All other states allow structural design based on education, experience, and/or competence but may limit the building size or function after which you do need an SE designation. CA is an example of this. If the building is over a certain story limit or a school or hospital, then you need to be an SE.

My exam experience was:
I studied very little, but I have daily experience with different materials building structures. My job is not focused on the manufacture of a certain type of building or product. I went through PPI's example problems and I took that book with me to the exam. I took both days in a row the first time and failed both sections (I feel just by a little). The next time I took it, I only took the first day and passed it. Then 6 months later I took the second day. Again, I did very little studying before the exams because I felt my job provided the experience required. I also took sample calculations (in a binder as required) to the exam that had things like a concrete beam analysis, snow/wind/seismic force generation, soil test. I marked with tabs in the PPI book examples that weren't so familiar to me (which came in very handy). Yes, the practice problems (six minute solutions) from PPI is a good book to study and take with you to the exam.

You do not need to sign up for both days and purposely fail the second day as someone said earlier. Just schedule one exam at a time. (2) days of exam is a lot to prepare for. Cut it in half by splitting it up. It may take you an extra 6 months (or save you time if you were to fail both sections in a single first).

Juston Fluckey, SE, PE, AWS CWI
Engineering Consultant

 

[AtlAC]

P1ENG,

I don't want to pick a fight here or anything but do you happen to live in GA? For the past few years the state board will not accept applicants for the 8 hour Civil PE if you practice Structural Engineering (

http://www.seaog.org/SE Rule_Rev_16-9-7.pdf).

I just passed the SE in the state of GA because when I applied to sit for the exam they don't give you the choice to pick the PE or SE exam, they decide for you. While the state of GA doesn't recognize a title of SE, they do require passing the 16-hr exam to be a licensed PE if you practice structural engineering.

 

[GTfitz2013]

Just wanted to report back here. Like most had been told, for the past few years GA would not allow applicants to sit for the Civil PE with Structural Depth. I confirmed this with the secretary of state before applying a few months ago. However, when my approval letter came to sit for the exam, it explicitly stated I was approved to sit for the Civil PE with Structural Depth. When I asked the same contact in the Secretary of State's office, he quoted a new board rule that allows people to sit for the Civil Structural PE as opposed to solely the SE. He did mention I could take the 16 hour exam if that's what I prefer.

Now this is purely speculation on my part, but I'm assuming that since the proposition to introduce an SE license in Georgia died last year in the senate (and wasn't brought up again this year) they decided to change the licensing rules to allow for structural engineers to once again sit for just the PE. I imagine the reason they required structural engineers to sit for the SE license the past few years was they were assuming the legislation would have no problem passing. Again, speculation on my part.

But in any case, I was approved to sit for the Civil Engineering PE exam with Structural depth in Georgia this fall. Anybody else approved for just the Civil Structural PE this fall?

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

Thanks for the update GT.

Professional Engineer (ME, NH, MA) Structural Engineer (IL)
American Concrete Industries

https://www.facebook.com/AmericanConcrete/

 

[AtlAC]

GT,

So I slaved for 4 months studying for an exam that one cycle later they wouldn't force me to take? I'm only kidding but did you send in a letter or anything requesting to sit for the civil PE with Structural depth. I know some people I used to work with who are structural engineers but don't design buildings and sent in a letter saying their work is more geared toward the civil PE and the board allowed them to take the 8 hour exam.

 

[GTfitz2013]

AtlAC I didn't send a letter, though I was considering doing so. My main focus is bridges so the SE really would have been overkill for me, but I was waiting until I got approved for it to send an appeal letter. Obviously that isn't required now. I wonder if they had been getting a lot of those kinds of appeals the past few years and if that too played a role in switching back to allowing the Civil Structural PE.

 

[Budding_SE]

@AtlAC @DETStru

would you be able to share your study schedule here? I am planning on taking the exam in April 2018 and your schedule could help me start somewhere

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

Budding_SE: If you're taking both parts you need 6+ months and about 300-400 study hours. If you're taking one part you'll need about 4 month and 150-200 study hours. A review course can help structure things a lot for you (but isn't required if money is tight). This exam is very easy to fall behind in your studies (work overload, life events, etc.) so be realistic with yourself how much time you can devote to studying.

Professional Engineer (ME, NH, MA) Structural Engineer (IL)
American Concrete Industries

https://www.facebook.com/AmericanConcrete/

 

[djrexy]

I also live in GA and I was not granted a PE license based on my out of state PE license. The board of GA simply put has a terrible view of requirements. I don't see any skyscrapers in Downtown Atlanta and I don't see Darien Sykes ( the idiot who started with this requirement) designing any high-rise in Georgia. However, Sykes needed to "show-off" with his SE exam and when becoming a member of the board he started imposing the SE exam for a regular PE license back in 2012. The board is non-existent there's no address, just a PO box and no one has the guts to sign an official letter from the board with his own very name. Receiving a letter from the board simply states " Georgia Board of Profesional Engineers and Land Surveyors". For real! I'm starting to question the legitimacy of this board.

Anyway enough bitchin'. I tried to pass the exams twice unsuccessfully and I'm looking for advice.


@ ATLAC Do you have a study schedule, a resource list (books, handouts, etc.) and a recommended review class online / offline that you could share?


Your success tells me it's doable but it takes a lot of practice and preparation.




DJ,
5+ruc+r@1 3ngin3ER

 

[spieng89]

Sykes actually made a pretty smart move, he created less competition for himself in the state of Georgia and allowed structural engineers to justify a higher fee

 

[WARose]

I don't see any skyscrapers in Downtown Atlanta....

You need to look harder then: the Bank of America Plaza building is one. There are others.

But the push for the SE obviously is not just about designing skyscrapers.

 

[Archie264]

He meant he doesn't do skyscraper work. I.e., he doesn't "see" it come across his desk.