Global vs detail oriented brain 5

[epoisses]

We all know the anecdotes about micro managers and other detail minded people. My boss is detail minded, actually several colleagues are detail minded and I have the impression that it's the company culture, or let's say it has worsened because it hadn't struck me when I joined a couple years ago. I am global myself and I usually think of "translating" messages to detail minded people, i.e.: throw in a dozen small, not necessarily relevant items so the message does not fit on one page and their interest is immediately tickled. ;-)

The other day I forgot to do so though. After I sent out a (short!) list of actions resulting from a meeting, my boss replied to all: did you discuss X, Y and Z? I responsed: yes, yes and no, with the idea in the back of my mind that I would bump into him later that day to discuss further. My detail minded co-worker apparently saw an open goal and sent a much more detailed reply to all. My boss replied to all thanking the other guy for his useful response and publicly told me off for having sent a reply "of no interest". Which of course is TRUE... for a DETAIL minded person!

But after that the issue started to haunt me. This is not the first "detail minded company" I work in. The anecdotes about micro managers are so generic it almost seems as though you have to be detail minded to get anywhere higher up the food chain, as contradictory as this may seem. Detail minded often gets confused with "driven", "dedicated", "rigorous"... or is it really the same thing!? I get sooo booored with details, I prefer to work with global people, I actually think many global people have a sense of humor while many detailed people don't (sorry it's not a pleasant thing to say), but are global people really fit for corporate life if they get bored so quickly? Is a global brain simply a lazy brain?? (You can see the existential crisis I'm in today...)

 

[GonzaloEE]

I'm afraid I must agree the market belongs to global-minded guys. What's the meaning of being smart? The same sales manager may be regarded as ‘brilliant’ by customers, while looking like ignorant or inaccurate for his/her Engineering coworkers, after listening all those absurd, inaccurate comparisons in presentations.

We must accept the fact that in many (not all) companies, Sales/Marketing means profit, while Engineering means cost. Sales guys know for sure their people skills are making money, 'lifting' the company, while we the Engineers are fighting an everyday battle to lower our costs, trying to weight less for the Management shoulders. A lack of ability to get a 'big picture' and transmit it to others only makes things worse.

I guess our stereotyped, detail-oriented Engineer should learn how to jump the fence, think for one minute how a joke or a laugh at lunch time may stretch the project budget more easily than a whole-day datasheet search, or just playing with this: How would I like to see my desk job shown in Discovery Channel: Interesting?, A key factor in our business?, Yawning ‘tech stuff’?

 

[IRstuff]

I think you're missing my point. You don't have to be in marketing to need to be globally minded. In defense, we have guys that design the nuts abd bolts, and we have guys that design the overally system, develope the concepts of operation, and allocated the specific requirements, so that the nuts and bolts guys can do their designs.

They're both important, because having only a roomful of nuts and bolts guys will not ensure that you're going to have a useful and effective system at the end of the day.

And, when the customer wants to know how our system is going to work within his system, guess what, he's going to ask the global minded person, and not the nuts and bolts guy.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[GonzaloEE]

I got your point, and I agree Business/Electrical examples may be a little confusing. I’m only saying bolt/nuts guys should try to think global before thinking on promotions. Of course technician and Engineer’s skills and levels of decision are very different (of course both equally important), though getting more global is always good for mind health, no matter if I’m the Manager or the guy with the soldering gun.

 

[KENAT]

I agree with IRstuff, you need a combination, be it people that manage both or a mix of the 2 separate types.

I dont' think one is better or smarter than the other.

I will say that perhaps the global will more likely make their way in management so perhaps make more though there are technical 'experts' that make a nice living too.

My last place got rid of the sales & marketing people and Engineering Project Management took over most of those duties. In this situation it worked a lot better, I'm not saying that's always going to be the case though. The Engineering project people were arguably more global, they could look at the commercial aspects and the engineering aspects and bid accordingly. The sales/marketing types didn't seem to get the engineering aspects and caused problems because of it.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[epoisses]

The global SHOULD go in management by definition IMHO and the detail minded should stay in hands-on positions, nothing worse than a manager who messes with details...
As in IRstuff's example, a manager who insists that I design the best brakes in the world, while I struggle to see how I will finish the total car design before the deadline, just gets on my nerves. Being a global person in a very detail minded organisation (my previous employer was a great example) means you drag along a multiple pages to do list, as soon as you think you can check a box you are asked to go over it once again... it's a major stress factor.
But then again the detail minded in a global organisation must have their dose of stress as well, all those unmanaged details! must be unbearable :-D

 

[GregLocock]

This is a false dichotomy. Systems engineers think 'globally', subsystem engineers think 'detail' wise, but good engineers will do both as necessary.

I enjoy detail work. I enjoy optimising defined systems. But I know that system integration inside poorly defined constraints is a more dangerous, more valuable, and less common, strength.



Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[ubrben]

For those who've commented on information hoarding, I'd like to come at it from a different perspective.

It is correct to say that it's "bad business practice" to hoard and not share info. However it's also bad practice to receive praise for work that isn't yours.

An example of what I mean is a recent request at our place to write powerpoint report summaries that present all the key data in a very simple visual form. I can't stand this because it gives people who don't really know what they're doing an easy route to appearing like they know stuff.

I write concise reports, sure, but not as concise as certain people need to be able to repeat the work.

The problem here is that in modern businesses people are seen as a disposable asset and information hoarding is to some extent the response to this. I accept that this is quite confrontational and not always necessary, but the interests of the business aren't the only issue here.

Ben

 

[IRstuff]

Flexibility is indeed the key. Being the world's foremost expert on brakes is great when gas prices are low, but now?

You need to adapt to both changes in requirements and level of detail.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[GonzaloEE]

Looks like there's some agreement on a global/detail balance. Integral engineers should always use a periscope for checking out what's going on above their technical waters.

 

[GonzaloEE]

I agree good communication skills don’t necessarily mean earning the ‘smart stamp’, though I think people skills are as valuable as being accurate, structured and creative or showing superior abstract thinking –as many engineers do. This might sound obvious in a forum, but in my work I’ve met some tech guys who seem like 100% focused on their hard skills, and worst of it, they are absolutely convinced their work problems should be solved only that way.

I think global thinking doesn’t mean sending technicians to Management courses, but having deep understanding of which resources we have to solve a problem. Not all engineering tools, technically speaking, but our people networks (I make deep use of it, though).

More than once, Eng-Tips helped me much more than a manufacturer’s Tech assistance page. More than once, a brief talk helps more than thinking alone. If you agree on that, you are global-minded and you’re one step ahead of your colleagues.

That’s all (I’m feeling like a preacher)

 

[csd72]

epoisses,

A few things to note:

This type of thing happens all the time the idea is to learn from it and move on. I have had to learn to work with 6 sets of management so far each with their own peculiarities. The important thing to realise is that it is you that has to change your behaviour as they are the ones in charge, and also probably more experienced and set in their ways. Not fair, possibly, but it is just one of the things in life that is not fair.

Secondly you need to understand how engineering works. You start of being employed as a details person to sort out all the details that the upper management do not have time for. It is only when you are of a sufficient level that you can delegate these details to someone else and concentrate on the global picture.

So, learn from this, and take pride in your work. Try and take care of the details then one day you will be in a position that you can use that ability to think more globally.

 

[gerhardl]

There is a point, perhaps not mentioned above, that always make an engineer with (also) a global or helicopter view useful:

'Is the main startpoint for your detailled engineering correct?'

In our not perfect world the answer is often 'no'.

(The construction was beautiful and correct constructed but should have been built on a complete different set of presumptions, or perhaps not been made at all.)

 

[csd72]

gerhardl,

Good point, but this only really comes with experience.

How can you understand a whole forest if you dont really understand how a tree works?

Life is all about staged learning. When you do an advanced driving course they tell you to watch four cars in front of you. Why dont they teach you this when you first start driving? Because you would crash into the car in front of you! It is only when you automatically are aware of what is happening straight in front of you that you can then safely look further ahead of you.

 

[GonzaloEE]

Anyway, if you have the best from both worlds in a work team, you're lucky.

 

[energised]

The reply email to all was a message to you that your boss and coworkers can be backstabbers. I have worked in many places and this can be a routine in some or non-existent in others. I have since developed a thick skin to prevent such things. I use it when necessary. To reply to the meeting goals question, I would have stepped into his office to discuss things. Or, reply in the email but only to him for a short answer. It is a good idea, as you intended, to keep it simple first and them reel in the details as needed. I like to give the impression that I am being on the task and give resistance to anyone trying to overhead me.