Grahics cards - gaming versus workstation cards

[DonMgt]

I've read the postings on the graphics cards. To summarize the Nvidia 1800 750 MB has been recommended as a very good value, ATI 5700 512 MB looks like a pretty strong entry. I'm concerned about the validity of the UG benchmarks as if I am understanding it correctly the benchmark ran on NX1 and my team is using NX6. There appears to be signficant performance differences in cards between NX1 and NX6.

My biggest question though is trying to understand the "don't use a gaming card" advice. From prices I've seen it seems that the gaming market is getting significantly better deals on the street for cards with more memory and CPU power. So, I can understand if I look at gaming card with the same specs as a workstation card that I will like the workstation card better. But, that isn't the real world for example, I can get a GB of memory on the ATI 4850 for less money than either of the cards I previously mentioned.

I can find some reviews that are dated and from what I can tell the gaming world is pushing the envelope on performance fairly hard so I want to make sure rules of thumb from a few years ago are still valid.

Part of the reason question is we don't have the MIS support at my company to be putting together systems we really prefer to buy a complete new system from one supplier. Package deals are quite attractive from the specs of the equipment but the graphics cards on these systems are invariably a gaming card so buying a CAD card is even more costly. The cards will be used with 24" or larger monitors.

 

[hudson888]

You're right to steer clear of the gaming card advice. Most users seem to be far more comfortable with Nvidia than ATI for reasons that probably aren't well enough substantiated. I don't see a great price disparity between the two cards you have mentioned especially if you're prepared to look for a deal. Either are good cards and on paper the ATI may in fact be the better bang for your buck option. I'd also add that neither are in my estimation overly expensive for NX graphics requirements.

Best Regards

Hudson

www.jamb.com.au

Nil Desperandum illegitimi non carborundum

 

[DonMgt]

What specifically will I like better about a card such as the Nvidea 1800 over a gaming card such as the 4850?

 

[petulf]

There is generally no hardware difference between workstation cards and the gaming cards, the difference is entirely in the drivers and support. For the higher price you get drivers and support that is optimized for 3D modeling work instead of gaming. It is possible to get workstation drivers working with gaming cards, but there is no support and usually requires modifying the cards firmware, which is not something you want to do if your livelihood depends on the card working.

// Petter

 

[wmalan]

DonMgt,
You said you don't have MIS support at your company. Another great reason to stick with the tried and true. The Nvidia FX series will be trouble free for you. Those gaming cars look attractive given the price and amount of ram but you'll really appreciate the support and stability of the FX series cards. The FX cards also have features directly applicable to NX's performance.

--
Bill

 

[DonMgt]

We have limited MIS support, and I prefer to not buy equipment that requires a large amount of support so the point that we may need less support is something that I'll value.
I'm a little confused over how much configuration of a graphics card is done typically on UG systems. I don't use UG myself, people that work for me use it. But, my impression is that we pretty much use the cards "out of the box". The above posts make it seem like a lot of configuration and perhaps on the fly reconfiguration is done to the cards. (Which I know my team doesn't do but maybe they should be doing.)

We needed a high powered notebook to run UG with last week so we bought a gaming laptop that was in stock. This computer has a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260M graphics card, pretty much a classic gaming card (and machine). We put 64 bit Windows Professional on it and it just simply worked and is blowing away the performance of our older desktop machines. (In fact I'd have several thrilled UG engineers if I inflicted the same laptops on them, but we should be able to do much better with new desk tops.)

So, you I get back to my basic question what will I really get out of a CAD card versus a gaming card. What will I like better on the machine that seems to be working fine if we put a true CAD card in it instead of the GeForce GTX card. I'm planning on buying new desk top machines so I trying to figure out if I'll get more total bang for my buck if I buy the fastest gaming machine with the a lot of memory or a slightly slower machine and/or less RAM but with a true CAD card. The package prices on machines being sold as "top-end gaming machines" looks very good to me. It looks to me that I will be deciding between buying a i7-950 CPU in a package with a CAD card or perhaps a i7-975 with a top end gaming card.
In the end my goal is to significantly reduce the time I see our engineers waiting on their computers to draw something.

 

[cowski]

There are still differences between 'gaming' cards and 'workstation' cards; the differences are more subtle than they were just a few years ago but they still exist. The main difference that probably matters to you is support from Siemens. There are many that use gaming cards with success, but if you do have an issue with non-certified hardware; it will likely be your problem alone.

In the end my goal is to significantly reduce the time I see our engineers waiting on their computers to draw something.

How long have your users been using NX? In my experience, modeling strategy has a big impact on how long it takes to create and edit models. Sometimes a common workflow from CAD package 'X' isn't the best way to do things in NX. Perhaps a training class or 2 would be good 'bang for the buck'.

 

[hudson888]

Don,

As far as I'm able to understand the differences between gaming and workstation graphics the way that the image is constructed and streamed to the card is or was different. The emphasis in the past for NX in particular was on OpenGL support and although things have changed and continued to improve over time different cards are still optimised to work in different ways. Typically continuous rotation of larger models tends to be the point that separates the wheat from the chaff when it comes to NX graphics. Regardless of a number of things that users can do to be more performance savvy in their workflow the provision of a capable graphics card often still proves the difference between working efficiently and making the job a chore.

Best Regards

Hudson

www.jamb.com.au

Nil Desperandum illegitimi non carborundum

 

[HynfiNX]

Get a GeForce GTX 295, works fine and it's really fast

Sandro Anderlini
Mould designer
Macerata - Italy

 

[wmalan]

If the price point is that important, get the GTX series card. Sounds like it works. Now when NX 7.5, 8... come along, will that work as well? I'd say a 90% chance it will. So... take the gamble.

--
Bill

 

[hudson888]

It wouldn't surprise me if the GeForce GTX 295 worked as well if not better than the Quadro FX-1800. I myself have used similar cards in the past to good effect. However on this occasion I'm not sure that it is actually cheaper at the time of writing. Certainly I don't have better information about why one is certified and the other is not, and you might also want to check what power supply your system requires to run the respective cards.

Best Regards

Hudson

www.jamb.com.au

Nil Desperandum illegitimi non carborundum

 

[HynfiNX]

In the last years I've experienced many cards, 3Dlabs, ATI, Quadro and GeForce. Actual gaming cards are very powerful and the reason is that actual games probably require more power than cad systems do.
ATI cards never enthusiasmed me while in the past I bought an Elsa Gloria Quadro card and that one was really disappointing.
If you read around on the Net you will also find instructions about how a simple GeForce card can be turned into a Quadro card simply installing different drivers. That's why I say they have the same processor.
The GTX 295 requires a good 850W power supply, I would reccommend the Corsair 850w modular psu.

Sandro Anderlini
Mould designer
Macerata - Italy

 

[wmalan]

The GTX 295 requires a good 850W power supply, I would recommend the Corsair 850w modular psu.

That's important to note. I see it has it's own power connector as well. That does bring up the pricepoint a bit as one would possibly add another $200 for the ps upgrade.

--
Bill

 

[Berserk]

If future support is a concern, I would get at least one box that is certified by Siemens.

In case there is an issue with UG on one of the "gaming" machines, yo can try to recreate the problem in the certified machine and be able to get help.

UGNX5.0.4.1 MP6 \ WinXP-SP3
Productive Design Services

http://www.productivedesign.com